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Toby
June 23rd 03, 08:48 PM
(Nick Pine) wrote in message
> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
>
> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.

Downward heatflow thru what???

You're being very double-minded here.

First you say one thing, then you say something another... and you
think I'm spreading confusion?

On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.

Dude. Make up your double-minded mind.

I think you Nick'n'choose what suits you.

Toby

================================================== ========================
From: Nick Pine )
Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
View: Complete Thread (184 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST


News > wrote:

>"Toby" > wrote in message
>> > > Active solar is provided by the (10) hydronic solar collectors
and
>> > > solar powered pumps that pump heat into the insulated 2' deep
sand bed
>> > > under the slab of the house...
>> > Having the pipes in sand under the slab there is a lot of
concrete
>> > for the heat to travel up through.

The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.
================================================== ========================

Toby
June 23rd 03, 08:48 PM
(Nick Pine) wrote in message
> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
>
> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.

Downward heatflow thru what???

You're being very double-minded here.

First you say one thing, then you say something another... and you
think I'm spreading confusion?

On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.

Dude. Make up your double-minded mind.

I think you Nick'n'choose what suits you.

Toby

================================================== ========================
From: Nick Pine )
Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
View: Complete Thread (184 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST


News > wrote:

>"Toby" > wrote in message
>> > > Active solar is provided by the (10) hydronic solar collectors
and
>> > > solar powered pumps that pump heat into the insulated 2' deep
sand bed
>> > > under the slab of the house...
>> > Having the pipes in sand under the slab there is a lot of
concrete
>> > for the heat to travel up through.

The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.
================================================== ========================

Nick Pine
June 23rd 03, 10:05 PM
Toby > wrote:

>(Nick Pine) wrote in message
>> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
>> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
>>
>> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.
>
>Downward heatflow thru what???

Through air, you nitwit.

>On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
>concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
>below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.

Wrong again, Tobe. That's from the 1998 Schaum's Outline, vs the HOF.

>From: Nick Pine )
>Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
>Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
>Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST...
>
>The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
>plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
>a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.

Doh. Note the (upward) direction of heatflow.

Nick

Nick Pine
June 23rd 03, 10:05 PM
Toby > wrote:

>(Nick Pine) wrote in message
>> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
>> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
>>
>> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.
>
>Downward heatflow thru what???

Through air, you nitwit.

>On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
>concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
>below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.

Wrong again, Tobe. That's from the 1998 Schaum's Outline, vs the HOF.

>From: Nick Pine )
>Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
>Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
>Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST...
>
>The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
>plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
>a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.

Doh. Note the (upward) direction of heatflow.

Nick

Toby
June 24th 03, 10:04 PM
(Nick Pine) wrote in message >...
> Toby > wrote:
>
> >(Nick Pine) wrote in message
> >> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
> >> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
> >>
> >> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.
> >
> >Downward heatflow thru what???
>
> Through air, you nitwit.

C'mon Nick. Do you really think the Rvalue of air is R5.5 per inch?

So, the air resistance from floor to ceiling is 8' * 12"/1' * R5.5/in
= R528

I don't believe it.

The air resistance between the Room Air and the floor is more like R1
maximum. Perhaps you are talking about radiant heat resistance, but
R5.5/in for air is stupid.

What we are talking about is the insulation of the EARTH (note the
subject '...EARTH sheltered house.'

> >On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
> >concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
> >below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.
>
> Wrong again, Tobe. That's from the 1998 Schaum's Outline, vs the HOF.

whatever.

> >From: Nick Pine )
> >Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
> >Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
> >Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST...
> >
> >The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
> >plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
> >a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.
>
> Doh. Note the (upward) direction of heatflow.

So now are claiming heat flows faster out of the ground than into it?
....like there's some heat blocking 'diode' impeding downward heatflow
when the ground is colder than the air?

Toby

Toby
June 24th 03, 10:04 PM
(Nick Pine) wrote in message >...
> Toby > wrote:
>
> >(Nick Pine) wrote in message
> >> Wrong again, Tobe. Grammar is spelled with two a's, and the 1998 Schaum's
> >> Outline on Heat Transfer says air is R5.5 per inch for downward heatflow.
> >>
> >> Please stop spreading confusion. Your writings are far worse than useless.
> >
> >Downward heatflow thru what???
>
> Through air, you nitwit.

C'mon Nick. Do you really think the Rvalue of air is R5.5 per inch?

So, the air resistance from floor to ceiling is 8' * 12"/1' * R5.5/in
= R528

I don't believe it.

The air resistance between the Room Air and the floor is more like R1
maximum. Perhaps you are talking about radiant heat resistance, but
R5.5/in for air is stupid.

What we are talking about is the insulation of the EARTH (note the
subject '...EARTH sheltered house.'

> >On 12/4/2002, you say that ASHRAE HOF says concrete has R0.8 for 4" of
> >concrete, and R0.44 per inch of sand. (full quote after my signature
> >below). Now you say ASHRAE HOF claims R5.5 per inch.
>
> Wrong again, Tobe. That's from the 1998 Schaum's Outline, vs the HOF.

whatever.

> >From: Nick Pine )
> >Subject: Re: Hair brained solar cistern???
> >Newsgroups: alt.solar.thermal
> >Date: 2002-12-04 19:22:23 PST...
> >
> >The ASHRAE HOF says sand has R0.44 per inch, ie R10.56 for 2' of sand,
> >plus 0.8 for 4" of concrete, plus 2/3 for the floor surface air film,
> >a total of R12.03, or 0.012 h-F/Btu, with 1000 ft^2 of warm floor.
>
> Doh. Note the (upward) direction of heatflow.

So now are claiming heat flows faster out of the ground than into it?
....like there's some heat blocking 'diode' impeding downward heatflow
when the ground is colder than the air?

Toby

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