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James
July 4th 03, 08:16 PM
Ouch!

It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.

I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
were $15, $19, $24, $30.

Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
plug from the outside.

While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
anything.

Bob Ward
July 4th 03, 10:46 PM
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:

>On 4 Jul 2003 11:16:53 -0700, (James) wrote:
>
>>Ouch!
>>
>>It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>>
>>I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
>>they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
>>were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>>
>>Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
>>Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
>>plug from the outside.
>>
>>While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
>>miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
>>anything.
>
>You can get plug kits for the cost of one store repair.
>
>I've also noticed some used tire places will do the repair cheap if
>you can leave it there for a day or so for them to do when they have a
>slow period.


The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
cut this particular "frugal" corner.

Is your life really worth the potential savings?

Bob Ward
July 4th 03, 10:46 PM
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:

>On 4 Jul 2003 11:16:53 -0700, (James) wrote:
>
>>Ouch!
>>
>>It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>>
>>I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
>>they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
>>were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>>
>>Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
>>Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
>>plug from the outside.
>>
>>While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
>>miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
>>anything.
>
>You can get plug kits for the cost of one store repair.
>
>I've also noticed some used tire places will do the repair cheap if
>you can leave it there for a day or so for them to do when they have a
>slow period.


The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
cut this particular "frugal" corner.

Is your life really worth the potential savings?

Bubbalicious
July 4th 03, 11:49 PM
"Jim Nitz" > wrote:

>> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
>> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>>
>> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>ahhhhhhh yes, I have to be in total agreement with these wise words. I
>know some tires shouldn't be patched, causes problems with steel belts
>rusting or something to the effect.

...................but...................this can be a fine interim repair until
you get back to your regular tire merchant. I wouldn't discount a plug if it
can get me back home.

..........btw...........why hasn't anyone just put the spare on? That would
occur to me first. The repair could be dealt with at a later time.

Bubbalicious
July 4th 03, 11:49 PM
"Jim Nitz" > wrote:

>> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
>> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>>
>> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>ahhhhhhh yes, I have to be in total agreement with these wise words. I
>know some tires shouldn't be patched, causes problems with steel belts
>rusting or something to the effect.

...................but...................this can be a fine interim repair until
you get back to your regular tire merchant. I wouldn't discount a plug if it
can get me back home.

..........btw...........why hasn't anyone just put the spare on? That would
occur to me first. The repair could be dealt with at a later time.

Jim Nitz
July 5th 03, 01:09 AM
"Bubbalicious" > wrote in message
...

> ..................but...................this can be a fine interim
repair until
> you get back to your regular tire merchant. I wouldn't discount a
plug if it
> can get me back home.
>
> .........btw...........why hasn't anyone just put the spare on? That
would
> occur to me first. The repair could be dealt with at a later time.

I put on a spare, now the wife is attempting her best at putting me on a
diet. :o)

Jim Nitz
July 5th 03, 01:09 AM
"Bubbalicious" > wrote in message
...

> ..................but...................this can be a fine interim
repair until
> you get back to your regular tire merchant. I wouldn't discount a
plug if it
> can get me back home.
>
> .........btw...........why hasn't anyone just put the spare on? That
would
> occur to me first. The repair could be dealt with at a later time.

I put on a spare, now the wife is attempting her best at putting me on a
diet. :o)

TomTom
July 5th 03, 03:07 AM
Discount Tire will fix flats for free regardless of whether you bought tires
there or not. At least they used to, haven't been there in over a year.

They will take the tire off the rim and patch, they don't do plugs as that's
a substandard way to fix a tire.


"James" > wrote in message
om...
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.


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TomTom
July 5th 03, 03:07 AM
Discount Tire will fix flats for free regardless of whether you bought tires
there or not. At least they used to, haven't been there in over a year.

They will take the tire off the rim and patch, they don't do plugs as that's
a substandard way to fix a tire.


"James" > wrote in message
om...
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.


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mark hoffman
July 5th 03, 03:46 AM
"James" > wrote in message
om...
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.
>
> While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> anything.

last flat I had, it was patched from inside, for FREE.

Allied Discount tire center in Louisiana...... their gimmick?

they hope you come buy tires from them next time.

this is good for anyone, regardless of where you bought the tires.



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mark hoffman
July 5th 03, 03:46 AM
"James" > wrote in message
om...
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.
>
> While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> anything.

last flat I had, it was patched from inside, for FREE.

Allied Discount tire center in Louisiana...... their gimmick?

they hope you come buy tires from them next time.

this is good for anyone, regardless of where you bought the tires.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 7/1/03

Don K
July 5th 03, 04:25 AM
"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?

I've had, maybe 6 flats over my years of driving, and every one that
was repairable was repaired with a plug that lasted the remaining
life of the tire.

Apparently plugs are back in favor as a proper way to repair
tires.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl028a.htm

Don

Don K
July 5th 03, 04:25 AM
"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?

I've had, maybe 6 flats over my years of driving, and every one that
was repairable was repaired with a plug that lasted the remaining
life of the tire.

Apparently plugs are back in favor as a proper way to repair
tires.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl028a.htm

Don

The Real Bev
July 5th 03, 05:24 AM
James wrote:
>
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.
>
> While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> anything.

America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
elsewhere.

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All bleeding eventually stops.

The Real Bev
July 5th 03, 05:24 AM
James wrote:
>
> Ouch!
>
> It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
>
> I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> were $15, $19, $24, $30.
>
> Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> plug from the outside.
>
> While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> anything.

America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
elsewhere.

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All bleeding eventually stops.

The Real Bev
July 5th 03, 05:27 AM
Bob Ward wrote:

> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

I think they have a fatter part, like a nailhead, that keeps them from
coming out. I've never heard of it happening, anyway.

> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?

Back when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, virtually ALL flats were fixed
with plugs instead of boots. What's different now?

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All bleeding eventually stops.

The Real Bev
July 5th 03, 05:27 AM
Bob Ward wrote:

> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

I think they have a fatter part, like a nailhead, that keeps them from
coming out. I've never heard of it happening, anyway.

> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?

Back when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, virtually ALL flats were fixed
with plugs instead of boots. What's different now?

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All bleeding eventually stops.

Bob Ward
July 5th 03, 08:03 AM
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:27:36 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote:

>Bob Ward wrote:
>
>> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
>> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
>I think they have a fatter part, like a nailhead, that keeps them from
>coming out. I've never heard of it happening, anyway.
>
>> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
>> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>>
>> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>Back when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, virtually ALL flats were fixed
>with plugs instead of boots. What's different now?


Tire construction? Steel-belted radials came some time after the
dinosaurs and wide whitewalls roamed the earth.

Bob Ward
July 5th 03, 08:03 AM
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:27:36 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote:

>Bob Ward wrote:
>
>> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
>> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
>I think they have a fatter part, like a nailhead, that keeps them from
>coming out. I've never heard of it happening, anyway.
>
>> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
>> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>>
>> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>Back when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, virtually ALL flats were fixed
>with plugs instead of boots. What's different now?


Tire construction? Steel-belted radials came some time after the
dinosaurs and wide whitewalls roamed the earth.

Tomcat14
July 5th 03, 12:17 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> James wrote:
> >
> > Ouch!
> >
> > It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> >
> > I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> > they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> > were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> >
> > Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> > Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> > plug from the outside.
> >
> > While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> > miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> > anything.
>
> America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
> elsewhere.

This question comes up from time to time on the car groups. There's
always the same controversy over how to repair and the costs.
One answer doesn't fit everybody. A lot depends on whether you like to
work on cars and tires and what your ability level in these things is.
Breaking down the tire and patching from inside is certainly better.
If you feel you need that extra assurance then most likely you will
have to pay or wait in line at the free store.
On the other hand, if you like to handle things yourself and are
prepared, you can plug a tire very reliably. You need the right tools
and a supply of different kinds of plugs. You also need to know that
you can't safely plug the sidewall or certain large cut holes. A
conventional nail/screw hole is a snap. The worst I've ever seen
happen with a plug is a slow leak. Of those two, one I plugged in the
rain and re-plugged an hour later, and the other was a large hole in
the sidewall on a new Michelin just for a test.
I realize no minds are changing over this thread. We pluggers will
plug on.

Tomcat14
July 5th 03, 12:17 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> James wrote:
> >
> > Ouch!
> >
> > It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> >
> > I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> > they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> > were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> >
> > Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> > Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> > plug from the outside.
> >
> > While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> > miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> > anything.
>
> America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
> elsewhere.

This question comes up from time to time on the car groups. There's
always the same controversy over how to repair and the costs.
One answer doesn't fit everybody. A lot depends on whether you like to
work on cars and tires and what your ability level in these things is.
Breaking down the tire and patching from inside is certainly better.
If you feel you need that extra assurance then most likely you will
have to pay or wait in line at the free store.
On the other hand, if you like to handle things yourself and are
prepared, you can plug a tire very reliably. You need the right tools
and a supply of different kinds of plugs. You also need to know that
you can't safely plug the sidewall or certain large cut holes. A
conventional nail/screw hole is a snap. The worst I've ever seen
happen with a plug is a slow leak. Of those two, one I plugged in the
rain and re-plugged an hour later, and the other was a large hole in
the sidewall on a new Michelin just for a test.
I realize no minds are changing over this thread. We pluggers will
plug on.

Craig
July 5th 03, 02:41 PM
"TomTom" > wrote...

> Discount Tire will fix flats for free regardless of whether you bought
tires
> there or not. At least they used to, haven't been there in over a year.
>
> They will take the tire off the rim and patch, they don't do plugs as
that's
> a substandard way to fix a tire.

Discount Tires still does this. After moving to an area with a Discount
Tires store, I'll never shop anywhere else. They're great.
--

Craig Williams
http://wpyr.netfirms.com

Craig
July 5th 03, 02:41 PM
"TomTom" > wrote...

> Discount Tire will fix flats for free regardless of whether you bought
tires
> there or not. At least they used to, haven't been there in over a year.
>
> They will take the tire off the rim and patch, they don't do plugs as
that's
> a substandard way to fix a tire.

Discount Tires still does this. After moving to an area with a Discount
Tires store, I'll never shop anywhere else. They're great.
--

Craig Williams
http://wpyr.netfirms.com

The Real Bev
July 6th 03, 12:33 AM
Tomcat14 wrote:
>
> The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> > James wrote:
> > >
> > > Ouch!
> > >
> > > It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> > >
> > > I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> > > they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> > > were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> > >
> > > Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> > > Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> > > plug from the outside.
> > >
> > > While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> > > miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> > > anything.
> >
> > America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
> > elsewhere.
>
> This question comes up from time to time on the car groups. There's
> always the same controversy over how to repair and the costs.
> One answer doesn't fit everybody. A lot depends on whether you like to
> work on cars and tires and what your ability level in these things is.

I hate fixing stuff. I do it when it's significantly cheaper and/or I
know I'll do a better job of it than the ****head I'll hire. I've really
had very few car-tire flats and I've never had to fix one myself.

> Breaking down the tire and patching from inside is certainly better.
> If you feel you need that extra assurance then most likely you will
> have to pay or wait in line at the free store.
> On the other hand, if you like to handle things yourself and are
> prepared, you can plug a tire very reliably. You need the right tools
> and a supply of different kinds of plugs. You also need to know that
> you can't safely plug the sidewall or certain large cut holes.

People ought to realize that from the shape of the hole and the shape of
the plug. They should also relize that plugs are worthless when a huge
strip of tread rips off :-)

> A conventional nail/screw hole is a snap. The worst I've ever seen
> happen with a plug is a slow leak. Of those two, one I plugged in the
> rain and re-plugged an hour later, and the other was a large hole in
> the sidewall on a new Michelin just for a test.
> I realize no minds are changing over this thread. We pluggers will
> plug on.

We all hope, of course, that we will never need to fix ANY tire ever
again...

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.

The Real Bev
July 6th 03, 12:33 AM
Tomcat14 wrote:
>
> The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> > James wrote:
> > >
> > > Ouch!
> > >
> > > It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> > >
> > > I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> > > they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> > > were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> > >
> > > Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> > > Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> > > plug from the outside.
> > >
> > > While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> > > miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> > > anything.
> >
> > America's Tire fixes flats for free, even if you bought the tires
> > elsewhere.
>
> This question comes up from time to time on the car groups. There's
> always the same controversy over how to repair and the costs.
> One answer doesn't fit everybody. A lot depends on whether you like to
> work on cars and tires and what your ability level in these things is.

I hate fixing stuff. I do it when it's significantly cheaper and/or I
know I'll do a better job of it than the ****head I'll hire. I've really
had very few car-tire flats and I've never had to fix one myself.

> Breaking down the tire and patching from inside is certainly better.
> If you feel you need that extra assurance then most likely you will
> have to pay or wait in line at the free store.
> On the other hand, if you like to handle things yourself and are
> prepared, you can plug a tire very reliably. You need the right tools
> and a supply of different kinds of plugs. You also need to know that
> you can't safely plug the sidewall or certain large cut holes.

People ought to realize that from the shape of the hole and the shape of
the plug. They should also relize that plugs are worthless when a huge
strip of tread rips off :-)

> A conventional nail/screw hole is a snap. The worst I've ever seen
> happen with a plug is a slow leak. Of those two, one I plugged in the
> rain and re-plugged an hour later, and the other was a large hole in
> the sidewall on a new Michelin just for a test.
> I realize no minds are changing over this thread. We pluggers will
> plug on.

We all hope, of course, that we will never need to fix ANY tire ever
again...

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.

The Real Bev
July 6th 03, 02:35 AM
JohnDoe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:33:52 -0700, The Real Bev
> > wrote:
>
> >I hate fixing stuff. I do it when it's significantly cheaper and/or I
> >know I'll do a better job of it than the ****head I'll hire.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> so that's how you feel about service people

Pretty much. I think I've had a less-than-desirable outcome whenever I've
had to have work done by "professionals."

The droid who twisted out a lug and then opined that I'd have to buy a new
wheel.

The guy who put new tires on the monsterhome who tightened the lug nuts so
hard that my husband and I, together on a 4-arm lug wrench using 3-foot
cheaters, bent the wrench far enough that we worried about it breaking and
still didn't manage to loosen them.

The Caddy dealer who forgot to install the differential bearing, requiring
the rental of a car (at his expense -- I can yell pretty loudly when
necessary) for two days.

The Ford dealer who dropped one of the starter bolts and apparently
installed the others too loose, resulting in one coming out and the other
loosening up enough to cause a jam. (Proof: one loose bolt, one missing
bolt, and one bolt lying on top of the starter).

The tire installer who accidentally dropped a wheel weight into the
tube-type truck tire, resulting in several returns for tube replacement
due to serious rips.

The Caddy dealer who replaced all my mom's belts and hoses at 40,000
miles, sold her discontinued ordinary tires at premium prices and refused
to replace them when they developed tread bubbles (a Bridgestone dealer
did, however -- much work and no profit for him) within the warranty
period.

The guy who installed the rebuilt engine in my Sentra, hooked up some
stuff wrong, losing the parts in the process, and didn't do the (required
by the rebuilder) 500-mile valve adjustment properly.

I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...

--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
-- Lionel

The Real Bev
July 6th 03, 02:35 AM
JohnDoe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:33:52 -0700, The Real Bev
> > wrote:
>
> >I hate fixing stuff. I do it when it's significantly cheaper and/or I
> >know I'll do a better job of it than the ****head I'll hire.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> so that's how you feel about service people

Pretty much. I think I've had a less-than-desirable outcome whenever I've
had to have work done by "professionals."

The droid who twisted out a lug and then opined that I'd have to buy a new
wheel.

The guy who put new tires on the monsterhome who tightened the lug nuts so
hard that my husband and I, together on a 4-arm lug wrench using 3-foot
cheaters, bent the wrench far enough that we worried about it breaking and
still didn't manage to loosen them.

The Caddy dealer who forgot to install the differential bearing, requiring
the rental of a car (at his expense -- I can yell pretty loudly when
necessary) for two days.

The Ford dealer who dropped one of the starter bolts and apparently
installed the others too loose, resulting in one coming out and the other
loosening up enough to cause a jam. (Proof: one loose bolt, one missing
bolt, and one bolt lying on top of the starter).

The tire installer who accidentally dropped a wheel weight into the
tube-type truck tire, resulting in several returns for tube replacement
due to serious rips.

The Caddy dealer who replaced all my mom's belts and hoses at 40,000
miles, sold her discontinued ordinary tires at premium prices and refused
to replace them when they developed tread bubbles (a Bridgestone dealer
did, however -- much work and no profit for him) within the warranty
period.

The guy who installed the rebuilt engine in my Sentra, hooked up some
stuff wrong, losing the parts in the process, and didn't do the (required
by the rebuilder) 500-mile valve adjustment properly.

I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...

--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
-- Lionel

Tomcat14
July 6th 03, 04:06 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> JohnDoe wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> >
> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
>
> Or my perspicacity.

Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
constantly doing poor work.
I was behind an S-10 truck yesterday when he dropped a steering
control arm over a bump. It was a 2000 model and he said it was just
greased yesterday. It had no grease whatsoever. That's why it broke.
He had been going to the same shop since new. (Yes, it did have a
grease fitting.)
As we were pushing it off to the side of the road a man stopped and
questioned us. I said it's unusual to break a tie rod on a newer truck
when it's greased. He argued vehemently with me about how that's
"normal" and how he was a "certified" mechanic. He also said to the
owner of the truck, "Why don't you try to drive it home."
Nobody cares more about your equipment than you do. Do what you can
for yourself and watch the rest like a hawk.

Tomcat14
July 6th 03, 04:06 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> JohnDoe wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> >
> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
>
> Or my perspicacity.

Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
constantly doing poor work.
I was behind an S-10 truck yesterday when he dropped a steering
control arm over a bump. It was a 2000 model and he said it was just
greased yesterday. It had no grease whatsoever. That's why it broke.
He had been going to the same shop since new. (Yes, it did have a
grease fitting.)
As we were pushing it off to the side of the road a man stopped and
questioned us. I said it's unusual to break a tie rod on a newer truck
when it's greased. He argued vehemently with me about how that's
"normal" and how he was a "certified" mechanic. He also said to the
owner of the truck, "Why don't you try to drive it home."
Nobody cares more about your equipment than you do. Do what you can
for yourself and watch the rest like a hawk.

jean and bill
July 6th 03, 11:18 PM
In article >,
says...
> Nobody cares more about your equipment than you do. Do what you can
> for yourself and watch the rest like a hawk
>
That goes for house stuff, too. But that's another thread...........

Jeannie
--
To reply to me, remove *spamenot* from address.

jean and bill
July 6th 03, 11:18 PM
In article >,
says...
> Nobody cares more about your equipment than you do. Do what you can
> for yourself and watch the rest like a hawk
>
That goes for house stuff, too. But that's another thread...........

Jeannie
--
To reply to me, remove *spamenot* from address.

The Real Bev
July 7th 03, 03:02 AM
Old_Timer wrote:
>
> On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:
>
> >The Real Bev > wrote:
> >>
> >> JohnDoe wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> >> >
> >> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> >> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
> >>
> >> Or my perspicacity.
> >
> >Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
> >constantly doing poor work.
>
> What happens frequently at tire shops is that the shops do not hand
> tighten the lug bolts with a torque wrench. This practice can and
> does warp the rotors.
>
> When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
> the lug nuts. Simply asking them does not work. If I am not sure that
> they did, I follow up later at home and hand torque them.

That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
manufactured to a different set of specs.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== ============
"Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special
Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded."

The Real Bev
July 7th 03, 03:02 AM
Old_Timer wrote:
>
> On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:
>
> >The Real Bev > wrote:
> >>
> >> JohnDoe wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> >> >
> >> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> >> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
> >>
> >> Or my perspicacity.
> >
> >Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
> >constantly doing poor work.
>
> What happens frequently at tire shops is that the shops do not hand
> tighten the lug bolts with a torque wrench. This practice can and
> does warp the rotors.
>
> When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
> the lug nuts. Simply asking them does not work. If I am not sure that
> they did, I follow up later at home and hand torque them.

That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
manufactured to a different set of specs.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== ============
"Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special
Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded."

Joe
July 7th 03, 01:55 PM
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

Has anyone actually had a plug fall out on anything other than a simple nail
puncture? I had one fall out of a hole that was huge and required a
double-plug, but that is rare and was an emergency fix to get us home
only...

Regards,
Joe - VROC #8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com - 973.571.1456 24/7

Ask me about "The Ride" on July 26: http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

$0.03 bargain: http://tinyurl.com/9sz6


"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:
>
> >On 4 Jul 2003 11:16:53 -0700, (James) wrote:
> >
> >>Ouch!
> >>
> >>It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> >>
> >>I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> >>they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> >>were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> >>
> >>Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> >>Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> >>plug from the outside.
> >>
> >>While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> >>miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> >>anything.
> >
> >You can get plug kits for the cost of one store repair.
> >
> >I've also noticed some used tire places will do the repair cheap if
> >you can leave it there for a day or so for them to do when they have a
> >slow period.
>
>
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>


---
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Joe
July 7th 03, 01:55 PM
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.

Has anyone actually had a plug fall out on anything other than a simple nail
puncture? I had one fall out of a hole that was huge and required a
double-plug, but that is rare and was an emergency fix to get us home
only...

Regards,
Joe - VROC #8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com - 973.571.1456 24/7

Ask me about "The Ride" on July 26: http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

$0.03 bargain: http://tinyurl.com/9sz6


"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:50:10 GMT, wrote:
>
> >On 4 Jul 2003 11:16:53 -0700, (James) wrote:
> >
> >>Ouch!
> >>
> >>It costs at some places half the price of a new tire.
> >>
> >>I checked around and found the cheapest at a Shell station. $8 if
> >>they can fix it without removing the wheel off the car. Other quotes
> >>were $15, $19, $24, $30.
> >>
> >>Since the tire had less than 5K miles, I went for the $15 job at
> >>Sears. I figured a patch from inside the tire was safer than just a
> >>plug from the outside.
> >>
> >>While at Sears I found out that they give free tire rotations every 5k
> >>miles. I used to get them at Firestone but they no longer give free
> >>anything.
> >
> >You can get plug kits for the cost of one store repair.
> >
> >I've also noticed some used tire places will do the repair cheap if
> >you can leave it there for a day or so for them to do when they have a
> >slow period.
>
>
> The problem with plug patches is that if they can be applied from
> outside the tire, they can come back out the way they went in.
>
> Personally, I have far too much invested in my car and my family to
> cut this particular "frugal" corner.
>
> Is your life really worth the potential savings?
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/03

Tomcat14
July 7th 03, 02:58 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> Old_Timer wrote:
> >
> > On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:
> >
> > >The Real Bev > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> JohnDoe wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> > >> >
> > >> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> > >> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
> > >>
> > >> Or my perspicacity.
> > >
> > >Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
> > >constantly doing poor work.
> >
> > What happens frequently at tire shops is that the shops do not hand
> > tighten the lug bolts with a torque wrench. This practice can and
> > does warp the rotors.
> >
> > When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
> > the lug nuts. Simply asking them does not work. If I am not sure that
> > they did, I follow up later at home and hand torque them.
>
> That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
> torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
> manufactured to a different set of specs.

I don't even let a tire shop touch my car. I roll the old tire in and
roll the new tire out and put it on myself with a torque wrench. This
is not practical for most people.

Tomcat14
July 7th 03, 02:58 PM
The Real Bev > wrote in message >...
> Old_Timer wrote:
> >
> > On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:
> >
> > >The Real Bev > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> JohnDoe wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > >I'll stop now, I'm getting depressed...
> > >> >
> > >> > It must be something about you, you seem to find enough incompetence
> > >> > for 10 normal people, maybe it's your attitude
> > >>
> > >> Or my perspicacity.
> > >
> > >Bev, your situation is not unusual at all. Service people are
> > >constantly doing poor work.
> >
> > What happens frequently at tire shops is that the shops do not hand
> > tighten the lug bolts with a torque wrench. This practice can and
> > does warp the rotors.
> >
> > When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
> > the lug nuts. Simply asking them does not work. If I am not sure that
> > they did, I follow up later at home and hand torque them.
>
> That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
> torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
> manufactured to a different set of specs.

I don't even let a tire shop touch my car. I roll the old tire in and
roll the new tire out and put it on myself with a torque wrench. This
is not practical for most people.

Chris Hill
July 7th 03, 03:10 PM
On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:02:13 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote:
>
>That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
>torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
>manufactured to a different set of specs.

Not likely. I can losen the properly-torqued lug nuts on my f350
pickup which are torqued to 148 ft/lb. I can do it with the factory
wrench and not put all my weight behind it. I only weigh about 160.
I'm sure my vehicle requires more torque than just about any car made.

Chris Hill
July 7th 03, 03:10 PM
On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:02:13 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote:
>
>That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
>torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
>manufactured to a different set of specs.

Not likely. I can losen the properly-torqued lug nuts on my f350
pickup which are torqued to 148 ft/lb. I can do it with the factory
wrench and not put all my weight behind it. I only weigh about 160.
I'm sure my vehicle requires more torque than just about any car made.

The Real Bev
July 8th 03, 12:16 AM
Tomcat14 wrote:
>
> The Real Bev > wrote:
> > That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
> > torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
> > manufactured to a different set of specs.
>
> I don't even let a tire shop touch my car. I roll the old tire in and
> roll the new tire out and put it on myself with a torque wrench. This
> is not practical for most people.

We do that whenever we can too, but we needed four new tires for the
27-foot monsterhome and at the time we didn't have any way to transport
four tires. Can't remember if we could get the nuts off before we got the
new tires...

--
Cheers,
Bev
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing in the universe can withstand the relentless application
of brute force and ignorance." -- Frd, via Dennis (evil)

The Real Bev
July 8th 03, 12:16 AM
Tomcat14 wrote:
>
> The Real Bev > wrote:
> > That was the only time we've had a problem, and they may have actually
> > torqued those monsters to spec. Unfortunately, our muscles were
> > manufactured to a different set of specs.
>
> I don't even let a tire shop touch my car. I roll the old tire in and
> roll the new tire out and put it on myself with a torque wrench. This
> is not practical for most people.

We do that whenever we can too, but we needed four new tires for the
27-foot monsterhome and at the time we didn't have any way to transport
four tires. Can't remember if we could get the nuts off before we got the
new tires...

--
Cheers,
Bev
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing in the universe can withstand the relentless application
of brute force and ignorance." -- Frd, via Dennis (evil)

~^Johnny^~
July 13th 03, 04:39 AM
On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:

> Service people are
>constantly doing poor work.

Hey, don't talk that way about Mr. Badwrench!
--
-john


~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts. They will explain what
can't be done and why. Then do it. - Robert Heinlein
~~~~~~~~

~^Johnny^~
July 13th 03, 04:39 AM
On 6 Jul 2003 07:06:37 -0700, (Tomcat14) wrote:

> Service people are
>constantly doing poor work.

Hey, don't talk that way about Mr. Badwrench!
--
-john


~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts. They will explain what
can't be done and why. Then do it. - Robert Heinlein
~~~~~~~~

Roseb441702
July 13th 03, 09:22 AM
A very, very long time ago I got a flat tire while on my way to work. I was
about 1/2 a mile from a service station. They took pity on me and replaced my
tire free of charge!

Let's raise our glasses to the good ole days!

Now back to the present. I belong to AAA so that helps in case I get a flat.


***************************************
"Give A ShoutOut To The World!"
Put Your Voice Message Online at:
The ShoutOut Page
http://members.aol.com/Roseb441702/shoutout.htm

Roseb441702
July 13th 03, 09:22 AM
A very, very long time ago I got a flat tire while on my way to work. I was
about 1/2 a mile from a service station. They took pity on me and replaced my
tire free of charge!

Let's raise our glasses to the good ole days!

Now back to the present. I belong to AAA so that helps in case I get a flat.


***************************************
"Give A ShoutOut To The World!"
Put Your Voice Message Online at:
The ShoutOut Page
http://members.aol.com/Roseb441702/shoutout.htm

Halcitron
July 14th 03, 07:15 AM
>From: ~^Johnny^~
>[email protected] e.comINVALID
>Newsgroups: misc.consumers.frugal-living
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:47:29 -0700


>On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 15:14:42 -0700, Old_Timer wrote:
>
>>When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
>>the lug nuts.
>
>
>One of my fav tire shop uses two air wrenches. One set to loosen,
>the other set to tighten.
>
>Air wrenches are equipped with torque settings - provided they are
>used properly, I don't really see a problem. Why two wrenches? The
>loosening wrench is usually set to a higher torque. Saves time.
>
>What really warps rotors, more so than uneven torque?
>Heat. Heat, and water splashing up there. What heats u[p brakes?
>Poor driving habits, or mechanical problems such as binding calipers,
>etc ...
>
>But it's always too easy to find a scapegoat.
>--
> -john

Many Brake Shops will offer to turn the rotors down -- to save you money.
Since I get a brake job about every 90,000 miles, I prefer to replace the
rotors, discs and shoes, at that interval. Realizing your rotors are heating
unevenly and warped, is not pleasant, while driving downhill on a two-lane
mountain road.

I tried to buy my parts ahead of my need, only to find that, my brake shop,
couldn't warrantee the job, so you need to buy their parts or DIY.


caveat lector

Halcitron misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

Halcitron
July 14th 03, 07:15 AM
>From: ~^Johnny^~
>[email protected] e.comINVALID
>Newsgroups: misc.consumers.frugal-living
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:47:29 -0700


>On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 15:14:42 -0700, Old_Timer wrote:
>
>>When I am in a tire shop I try to watch and see if they hand torque
>>the lug nuts.
>
>
>One of my fav tire shop uses two air wrenches. One set to loosen,
>the other set to tighten.
>
>Air wrenches are equipped with torque settings - provided they are
>used properly, I don't really see a problem. Why two wrenches? The
>loosening wrench is usually set to a higher torque. Saves time.
>
>What really warps rotors, more so than uneven torque?
>Heat. Heat, and water splashing up there. What heats u[p brakes?
>Poor driving habits, or mechanical problems such as binding calipers,
>etc ...
>
>But it's always too easy to find a scapegoat.
>--
> -john

Many Brake Shops will offer to turn the rotors down -- to save you money.
Since I get a brake job about every 90,000 miles, I prefer to replace the
rotors, discs and shoes, at that interval. Realizing your rotors are heating
unevenly and warped, is not pleasant, while driving downhill on a two-lane
mountain road.

I tried to buy my parts ahead of my need, only to find that, my brake shop,
couldn't warrantee the job, so you need to buy their parts or DIY.


caveat lector

Halcitron misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

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