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ares
July 8th 03, 11:49 PM
I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
ares

George
July 9th 03, 01:07 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there
is
> a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will
that
> perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to
do
> in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
> ares
>
I think it is one of those situations where you just need to ask a strong
question. It is "have you made someone aware of your last wishes and have
they agreed to act?". If not then you need to ask questions such as "do you
want a religious service?", "do you want your body buried, cremated, donated
to science etc?" and "do you have a will, where do I find it and am I the
executor or who should I notify?" I think by asking those questions you are
certainly acting in the best interest of your relative because otherwise how
would you know their wishes?

I can tell you from experience that it is really important that your
relative have a will *and* you know where it is *and* it is valid.

George
July 9th 03, 01:07 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there
is
> a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will
that
> perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to
do
> in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
> ares
>
I think it is one of those situations where you just need to ask a strong
question. It is "have you made someone aware of your last wishes and have
they agreed to act?". If not then you need to ask questions such as "do you
want a religious service?", "do you want your body buried, cremated, donated
to science etc?" and "do you have a will, where do I find it and am I the
executor or who should I notify?" I think by asking those questions you are
certainly acting in the best interest of your relative because otherwise how
would you know their wishes?

I can tell you from experience that it is really important that your
relative have a will *and* you know where it is *and* it is valid.

gini52
July 9th 03, 01:32 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
===
The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
logistics.
An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
relative is close to you,
you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
understand their wishes.
====
====

gini52
July 9th 03, 01:32 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
===
The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
logistics.
An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
relative is close to you,
you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
understand their wishes.
====
====

Colt
July 9th 03, 01:55 AM
ares wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
> a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
> perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
> in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
> ares


The very first thing you do when a relative dies in the hospital is to
call their loved ones to notify them and then to contact a funeral home
to pick up the body and arrange the burial or cremation (and the funeral
if desired). You do not need to make a lot of decisions re: the funeral
immediately, but you do need to contact the funeral home to pick up the
body.

If you do not know anything about the will, perhaps you are not the
closest living relative? Most people discuss their wills only with
their closest living relatives (spouse, adult children, life partner).

If you are the closest living relative and your loved one has not
already broached the subject with you, you can broach it by asking them
what kind of arrangements they would want if they were to pass away
suddenly. This could lead into a discussion of burial vs. cremation,
funeral at funeral home vs. church, and location of a copy of the will,
life insurance policy, etc.

Colt
July 9th 03, 01:55 AM
ares wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
> a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
> perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
> in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
> ares


The very first thing you do when a relative dies in the hospital is to
call their loved ones to notify them and then to contact a funeral home
to pick up the body and arrange the burial or cremation (and the funeral
if desired). You do not need to make a lot of decisions re: the funeral
immediately, but you do need to contact the funeral home to pick up the
body.

If you do not know anything about the will, perhaps you are not the
closest living relative? Most people discuss their wills only with
their closest living relatives (spouse, adult children, life partner).

If you are the closest living relative and your loved one has not
already broached the subject with you, you can broach it by asking them
what kind of arrangements they would want if they were to pass away
suddenly. This could lead into a discussion of burial vs. cremation,
funeral at funeral home vs. church, and location of a copy of the will,
life insurance policy, etc.

Frank White
July 9th 03, 05:54 AM
In article >,
says...
>
>I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
>sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
>hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
>contacting their house of worship may be a start.

Having been through this, I can give you some idea what to expect.

Hospital personnel are experienced with this sort of thing, they'll
do what they can to help you by alerting the funeral home of your
choice, taking care of transferring the body, giving you any personal
effects your relative might have had at the hospital, letting you
go to a quiet room and sob your eyes out until you can go on, etc.

The funeral home director will also do his best to help you
through this. He knows the ins and outs of the law and funeral
regulations, and will take care of such things as applying for
a death certificate (and as many copies as you wish), setting
up the arrangements, etc. You may want to have friends and
relatives accompnay you to the meeting with him, because you're
probably going to be feeling very wrung out at this point and
perhaps not up to making decisions like what sort of casket
to buy or the design to have on the funeral booklets... He'll
also handle setting up things with the church, temple, or
whatever of preference.

The process is set up for your convenience. People want to
help you when you're hurting that bad.

> And if you know there is
>a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
>prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
>place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
>perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to
do
>in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
>subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>ares

Regarding the will: You'd better talk to the relative in
question. If he/she has anything to say about the will and
where it might be, or if they have any spcific desires on
how they're to be buried, of all sorts of matters, THEY
are the ones you need to talk to...

FW

Frank White
July 9th 03, 05:54 AM
In article >,
says...
>
>I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
like
>sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
>hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
>contacting their house of worship may be a start.

Having been through this, I can give you some idea what to expect.

Hospital personnel are experienced with this sort of thing, they'll
do what they can to help you by alerting the funeral home of your
choice, taking care of transferring the body, giving you any personal
effects your relative might have had at the hospital, letting you
go to a quiet room and sob your eyes out until you can go on, etc.

The funeral home director will also do his best to help you
through this. He knows the ins and outs of the law and funeral
regulations, and will take care of such things as applying for
a death certificate (and as many copies as you wish), setting
up the arrangements, etc. You may want to have friends and
relatives accompnay you to the meeting with him, because you're
probably going to be feeling very wrung out at this point and
perhaps not up to making decisions like what sort of casket
to buy or the design to have on the funeral booklets... He'll
also handle setting up things with the church, temple, or
whatever of preference.

The process is set up for your convenience. People want to
help you when you're hurting that bad.

> And if you know there is
>a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
>prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
>place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
>perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to
do
>in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
>subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>ares

Regarding the will: You'd better talk to the relative in
question. If he/she has anything to say about the will and
where it might be, or if they have any spcific desires on
how they're to be buried, of all sorts of matters, THEY
are the ones you need to talk to...

FW

Bob Ward
July 9th 03, 06:20 AM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400, "gini52" > wrote:

>
>"ares" > wrote in message
...
>> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
>like
>> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
>===
>The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>logistics.
>An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>relative is close to you,
>you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
>understand their wishes.
>====
>====
>
>

The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
job.

While searching www.about.com for possible help, I kept coming up with
the following link in the Death and Dying directory area:

Wide Variety Empty Gelatin and Vegetable Capsules
We offer a huge variety of empty gelatin and vegetable capsules. Size
"000" only 24.99. International orders welcomed. Free shipping to
anywhere in the U.S. and Canada.
http://www.capsuline.com/ Sponsored Link


Sounds like they might be fishing for people considering assisted
suicide advice to me.

Bob Ward
July 9th 03, 06:20 AM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400, "gini52" > wrote:

>
>"ares" > wrote in message
...
>> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
>like
>> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
>===
>The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>logistics.
>An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>relative is close to you,
>you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
>understand their wishes.
>====
>====
>
>

The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
job.

While searching www.about.com for possible help, I kept coming up with
the following link in the Death and Dying directory area:

Wide Variety Empty Gelatin and Vegetable Capsules
We offer a huge variety of empty gelatin and vegetable capsules. Size
"000" only 24.99. International orders welcomed. Free shipping to
anywhere in the U.S. and Canada.
http://www.capsuline.com/ Sponsored Link


Sounds like they might be fishing for people considering assisted
suicide advice to me.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:21 AM
>I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
>sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
>hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
>contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
>a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
>prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
>place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
>perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
>in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
>subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.

I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.

In my relative's case, the will specified matters re: burial services and such.
Property was held jointly ("John and Jane Doe") and the survivor was
designated sole beneficiary. SS was on direct deposit so that has to be dealt
with still. The hospital and mortuary handled a lot of paperwork things
unobtrusively, though there will of course be some mopping up...

There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:21 AM
>I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
>sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
>what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
>hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
>contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
>a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
>prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
>place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
>perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
>in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
>subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.

I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.

In my relative's case, the will specified matters re: burial services and such.
Property was held jointly ("John and Jane Doe") and the survivor was
designated sole beneficiary. SS was on direct deposit so that has to be dealt
with still. The hospital and mortuary handled a lot of paperwork things
unobtrusively, though there will of course be some mopping up...

There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.

Sue Larkin
July 9th 03, 09:05 AM
In article >, JoelnCaryn
> wrote:

> >[...] It's a touchy
> >subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.

Me, too.

> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.

Is it convenient for you to share the URLs? I'd sure appreciate it.

Mahalo...Sue
suereel at pobox dot com

Sue Larkin
July 9th 03, 09:05 AM
In article >, JoelnCaryn
> wrote:

> >[...] It's a touchy
> >subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.

Me, too.

> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.

Is it convenient for you to share the URLs? I'd sure appreciate it.

Mahalo...Sue
suereel at pobox dot com

Dennis P. Harris
July 9th 03, 09:06 AM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:

> The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> logistics.

and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
"would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.

> An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> relative is close to you,
> you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> understand their wishes.

good attorneys will make it easier. bad attornies will suck the
estate dry.

for the dying process itself, that's when hospice is helpful.
they can provide counseling for both the dying and the surviving,
and help steer the survivors through the pitfalls.

Dennis P. Harris
July 9th 03, 09:06 AM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:

> The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> logistics.

and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
"would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.

> An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> relative is close to you,
> you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> understand their wishes.

good attorneys will make it easier. bad attornies will suck the
estate dry.

for the dying process itself, that's when hospice is helpful.
they can provide counseling for both the dying and the surviving,
and help steer the survivors through the pitfalls.

Dennis P. Harris
July 9th 03, 09:10 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:27:51 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"ares" > wrote:

> Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and haven't
> reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens as
> he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask more
> details myself.

if you are named the executor, you can tell him that it's *your*
job, and that's what the deceased wanted, otherwise it wouldn't
be right there in writing!

as i said before, hospice can help steer you through the dying
and grieving. unless you specifically need to go to the
deceased's attorney, you can ask for referrals from the local bar
association, local senior groups like AARP or the alzheimers'
association.

Dennis P. Harris
July 9th 03, 09:10 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:27:51 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"ares" > wrote:

> Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and haven't
> reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens as
> he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask more
> details myself.

if you are named the executor, you can tell him that it's *your*
job, and that's what the deceased wanted, otherwise it wouldn't
be right there in writing!

as i said before, hospice can help steer you through the dying
and grieving. unless you specifically need to go to the
deceased's attorney, you can ask for referrals from the local bar
association, local senior groups like AARP or the alzheimers'
association.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 11:05 AM
>> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.
>
>Is it convenient for you to share the URLs? I'd sure appreciate it.

This is the one I was using to help my grandmother:
http://www.gofso.com/Premium/LE/19_le_lo/fg/fg-Death_Spouse.html

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 11:05 AM
>> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.
>
>Is it convenient for you to share the URLs? I'd sure appreciate it.

This is the one I was using to help my grandmother:
http://www.gofso.com/Premium/LE/19_le_lo/fg/fg-Death_Spouse.html

Chloe
July 9th 03, 01:24 PM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and
haven't
> reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens
as
> he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask
more
> details myself.
> ares

Who does the will name as executor?

Chloe
July 9th 03, 01:24 PM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and
haven't
> reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens
as
> he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask
more
> details myself.
> ares

Who does the will name as executor?

Tomcat14
July 9th 03, 04:11 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:27:51 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
> "ares" > wrote:
>
> > Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and haven't
> > reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> > will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> > not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens as
> > he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask more
> > details myself.
>
> if you are named the executor, you can tell him that it's *your*
> job, and that's what the deceased wanted, otherwise it wouldn't
> be right there in writing!
>
> as i said before, hospice can help steer you through the dying
> and grieving. unless you specifically need to go to the
> deceased's attorney, you can ask for referrals from the local bar
> association, local senior groups like AARP or the alzheimers'
> association.


One lawyer around here was eager to say, "Where there's no will,
there's no way" meaning if you want something specific done with your
assets, make sure you have a will. Depending upon the amount of
property, a simple trust can avoid probate and inheritance taxes as
well as save much time and agony. But there are some tax advantages to
using a will instead of a trust such as when an asset has greatly
appreciate. Bottom line: A person should seek legal advice beforehand
if there are sizable assets.

Tomcat14
July 9th 03, 04:11 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:27:51 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
> "ares" > wrote:
>
> > Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and haven't
> > reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm sure
> > will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I would
> > not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens as
> > he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask more
> > details myself.
>
> if you are named the executor, you can tell him that it's *your*
> job, and that's what the deceased wanted, otherwise it wouldn't
> be right there in writing!
>
> as i said before, hospice can help steer you through the dying
> and grieving. unless you specifically need to go to the
> deceased's attorney, you can ask for referrals from the local bar
> association, local senior groups like AARP or the alzheimers'
> association.


One lawyer around here was eager to say, "Where there's no will,
there's no way" meaning if you want something specific done with your
assets, make sure you have a will. Depending upon the amount of
property, a simple trust can avoid probate and inheritance taxes as
well as save much time and agony. But there are some tax advantages to
using a will instead of a trust such as when an asset has greatly
appreciate. Bottom line: A person should seek legal advice beforehand
if there are sizable assets.

IleneB
July 9th 03, 06:08 PM
In article >, ares
> wrote:

> It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.

Said relatives should tell some trusted person where their papers are
(will, phone numbers, health care proxy, etc.) And of course, many
people don't have such things. In my state, if a person dies without a
will, the state takes half of everything. Mention that if a person is
unwilling to deal with the realities.

And it doesn't have to be about age/illness. It's about property, at
least as far as wills go. You might try to be clear with the relative
that it's not about you wanting to grub up their property or anything,
but that matters (financial and otherwise) go the way that person
wishes.

Whoever is going to be "in charge" of funeral arrangements, etc., calls
the funeral home. If the person dies in hospital, the body will be at
the hospital morgue. If not, the funeral home or medical examiner's
office pick up the body (if sudden at home or in public). The person
"in charge" can contact church or whatever. It helps to know what a
person might have wanted- religious service, "celebration", memorial,
nothing. Cremation, burial.

My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
burial, I'll have him cremated.

Ilene B

IleneB
July 9th 03, 06:08 PM
In article >, ares
> wrote:

> It's a touchy
> subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.

Said relatives should tell some trusted person where their papers are
(will, phone numbers, health care proxy, etc.) And of course, many
people don't have such things. In my state, if a person dies without a
will, the state takes half of everything. Mention that if a person is
unwilling to deal with the realities.

And it doesn't have to be about age/illness. It's about property, at
least as far as wills go. You might try to be clear with the relative
that it's not about you wanting to grub up their property or anything,
but that matters (financial and otherwise) go the way that person
wishes.

Whoever is going to be "in charge" of funeral arrangements, etc., calls
the funeral home. If the person dies in hospital, the body will be at
the hospital morgue. If not, the funeral home or medical examiner's
office pick up the body (if sudden at home or in public). The person
"in charge" can contact church or whatever. It helps to know what a
person might have wanted- religious service, "celebration", memorial,
nothing. Cremation, burial.

My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
burial, I'll have him cremated.

Ilene B

IleneB
July 9th 03, 06:09 PM
In article >, George
> wrote:

> I think it is one of those situations where you just need to ask a strong
> question.


I told a friend (when I was younger and had few assets) that I didn't
need a will- that the landlord could just throw my stuff out from my
studio apartment. Friend said, "So, that Indian sculpture you love. You
don't care if someone uses it for a urinal?"

"nuff said"

Ilene B

IleneB
July 9th 03, 06:09 PM
In article >, George
> wrote:

> I think it is one of those situations where you just need to ask a strong
> question.


I told a friend (when I was younger and had few assets) that I didn't
need a will- that the landlord could just throw my stuff out from my
studio apartment. Friend said, "So, that Indian sculpture you love. You
don't care if someone uses it for a urinal?"

"nuff said"

Ilene B

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:11 PM
Bob Ward > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400, "gini52" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"ares" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
> like
> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
> >===
> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >logistics.
> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >relative is close to you,
> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> >understand their wishes.
> >====
> >====
> >
> >
>
> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> job.

In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
relative.

In New Jersey, at least, you can stop by any funeral home and get a
brochure, including a price list, that you take home and study at your
leisure. If the prospective guest of honor feels proactive enough but
is housebound, funeral homes will send a representative to the house,
again with a preprinted price list.

Funerals can be prepaid - prepaying a funeral is a legitimate way to
dispose of assets to qualify for medicaid. In New Jersey, at least,
the prepayment goes to a state-insured fund (you don't make the check
out to the funeral home). When the time comes, you can go to any
funeral home, you don't have to use the one where you made the
arrangements, and the fund will disburse the money. Be aware that the
thing that makes this acceptable to medicaid is that funeral
prepayments are irrevocable - if the funeral ends up costing less than
the prepayment, tough, the estate doesn't get it back. The state (not
the funeral home) gets to keep any excess.

My father-in-law arranged his own funeral this way and lived three
more years. When he died, my mother-in-law called the funeral home,
they did exactly what he specified, and no one in the family had to
fret and worry about arrangements, other than picking the hymns to be
sung in church. For my mother-n-law, we (my wife, her sister, and I)
made the arrangements a couple of months before she died, and again,
it was a matter of calling the home, and everything was taken care of,
just the way we wanted it.

If there's been an accident or sudden illness you may have no choice
but to decide what to do and how much to spend doing it while in a
state of emotional shock and grief. But if you have an elderly,
failing relative, there's time to consider and decide before the
necessity becomes urgent.

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:11 PM
Bob Ward > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400, "gini52" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"ares" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
> like
> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
> >===
> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >logistics.
> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >relative is close to you,
> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> >understand their wishes.
> >====
> >====
> >
> >
>
> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> job.

In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
relative.

In New Jersey, at least, you can stop by any funeral home and get a
brochure, including a price list, that you take home and study at your
leisure. If the prospective guest of honor feels proactive enough but
is housebound, funeral homes will send a representative to the house,
again with a preprinted price list.

Funerals can be prepaid - prepaying a funeral is a legitimate way to
dispose of assets to qualify for medicaid. In New Jersey, at least,
the prepayment goes to a state-insured fund (you don't make the check
out to the funeral home). When the time comes, you can go to any
funeral home, you don't have to use the one where you made the
arrangements, and the fund will disburse the money. Be aware that the
thing that makes this acceptable to medicaid is that funeral
prepayments are irrevocable - if the funeral ends up costing less than
the prepayment, tough, the estate doesn't get it back. The state (not
the funeral home) gets to keep any excess.

My father-in-law arranged his own funeral this way and lived three
more years. When he died, my mother-in-law called the funeral home,
they did exactly what he specified, and no one in the family had to
fret and worry about arrangements, other than picking the hymns to be
sung in church. For my mother-n-law, we (my wife, her sister, and I)
made the arrangements a couple of months before she died, and again,
it was a matter of calling the home, and everything was taken care of,
just the way we wanted it.

If there's been an accident or sudden illness you may have no choice
but to decide what to do and how much to spend doing it while in a
state of emotional shock and grief. But if you have an elderly,
failing relative, there's time to consider and decide before the
necessity becomes urgent.

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:14 PM
(JoelnCaryn) wrote in message >...
> >I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
> >sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> >what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> >hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> >contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
> >a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> >prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> >place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
> >perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
> >in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> >subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.
>
> In my relative's case, the will specified matters re: burial services and such.
> Property was held jointly ("John and Jane Doe") and the survivor was
> designated sole beneficiary. SS was on direct deposit so that has to be dealt
> with still. The hospital and mortuary handled a lot of paperwork things
> unobtrusively, though there will of course be some mopping up...
>
> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.


In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their final
disposition well before that.

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:14 PM
(JoelnCaryn) wrote in message >...
> >I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel like
> >sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was wondering,
> >what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away? Do
> >hospital employees refer you to the proper channels? I'd imagine that
> >contacting their house of worship may be a start. And if you know there is
> >a will, who do you contact to get that taken care of, the lawyer who
> >prepared it (who for all I know might no longer be located in the same
> >place)? And how would I know even if there was a revision to the will that
> >perhaps I didn't have a copy of? It seems everyone seems to know what to do
> >in these situations but I wouldn't know where to start. It's a touchy
> >subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> I'm helping take care of some of this myself right now.
>
> In my relative's case, the will specified matters re: burial services and such.
> Property was held jointly ("John and Jane Doe") and the survivor was
> designated sole beneficiary. SS was on direct deposit so that has to be dealt
> with still. The hospital and mortuary handled a lot of paperwork things
> unobtrusively, though there will of course be some mopping up...
>
> There are a bunch of websites re: paperwork you might have forgotten, too.


In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their final
disposition well before that.

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:24 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>
> > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> > logistics.
>
> and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
> "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
> INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.

I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.

There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.

lpogoda
July 9th 03, 06:24 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>
> > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> > logistics.
>
> and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
> "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
> INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.

I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.

There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.

Dennis
July 9th 03, 07:45 PM
On 9 Jul 2003 09:24:12 -0700, (lpogoda) wrote:

(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
>> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>>
>> > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>> > logistics.
>>
>> and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
>> "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
>> INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>
>I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
>funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.

Same here. When making the arrangements for my mother, the funeral
director was very helpful, explained all the costs and provided a
number of options with no pressure to choose any particular set.

For reference, this was in a small town in Oregon.

the Dennis formerly known as (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

Dennis
July 9th 03, 07:45 PM
On 9 Jul 2003 09:24:12 -0700, (lpogoda) wrote:

(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
>> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>>
>> > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>> > logistics.
>>
>> and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
>> "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
>> INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>
>I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
>funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.

Same here. When making the arrangements for my mother, the funeral
director was very helpful, explained all the costs and provided a
number of options with no pressure to choose any particular set.

For reference, this was in a small town in Oregon.

the Dennis formerly known as (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:05 PM
>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
>> like
>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
>wondering,
>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
>> >
>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>> >logistics.
>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>> >relative is close to you,
>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
>> >understand their wishes.
>>
>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
>> job.
>
>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
>relative.

My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One great-uncle
went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
specified "cremation, no funeral".

This is one very good reason to have a will.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:05 PM
>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
>> like
>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
>wondering,
>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
>> >
>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>> >logistics.
>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>> >relative is close to you,
>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
>> >understand their wishes.
>>
>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
>> job.
>
>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
>relative.

My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One great-uncle
went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
specified "cremation, no funeral".

This is one very good reason to have a will.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:08 PM
>In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
>arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
>of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their final
>disposition well before that.

Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in my
family.

JoelnCaryn
July 9th 03, 08:08 PM
>In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
>arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
>of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their final
>disposition well before that.

Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in my
family.

Candide
July 9th 03, 09:21 PM
"JoelnCaryn" > wrote in message
...
> >In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
> >arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
> >of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their
final
> >disposition well before that.
>
> Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in
my
> family.

Same here, the executor should have a copy of the document so there is
no delay in putting into effect certain aspects of the Will. It is not
always easy to locate the attorney in question and in some cases
arrangements need to be made quite soon as burial must take place within
a certain time period.

Also it is helpful to have a second copy someplace just in case as a
"back up", so someone besides the attorney knows what is what. Have
heard reports of some very horrible attorneys that "doctored" Wills to
bleed the estate dry. People dying without family and leaving their
estate to be administered solely by an attorney can be open to abuse.

Candide

Candide
July 9th 03, 09:21 PM
"JoelnCaryn" > wrote in message
...
> >In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
> >arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
> >of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their
final
> >disposition well before that.
>
> Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in
my
> family.

Same here, the executor should have a copy of the document so there is
no delay in putting into effect certain aspects of the Will. It is not
always easy to locate the attorney in question and in some cases
arrangements need to be made quite soon as burial must take place within
a certain time period.

Also it is helpful to have a second copy someplace just in case as a
"back up", so someone besides the attorney knows what is what. Have
heard reports of some very horrible attorneys that "doctored" Wills to
bleed the estate dry. People dying without family and leaving their
estate to be administered solely by an attorney can be open to abuse.

Candide

Candide
July 9th 03, 09:24 PM
"lpogoda" > wrote in message
om...
> (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
>...
> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
> > misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
> >
> > > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through
the
> > > logistics.
> >
> > and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
> > "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
> > INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>
> I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
> funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.
>
> There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
> doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
> no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
> anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
> require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
> serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
> myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.

Many cemeteries require a vault also to keep "leaks" from entering the
ground and then the water table.

Candide

--
"I highly recommend worrying. It's much more effective than dieting."
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+___+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+__ +_+_+
William Powell - Actor

Candide
July 9th 03, 09:24 PM
"lpogoda" > wrote in message
om...
> (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
>...
> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
> > misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
> >
> > > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through
the
> > > logistics.
> >
> > and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
> > "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
> > INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>
> I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
> funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.
>
> There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
> doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
> no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
> anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
> require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
> serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
> myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.

Many cemeteries require a vault also to keep "leaks" from entering the
ground and then the water table.

Candide

--
"I highly recommend worrying. It's much more effective than dieting."
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+___+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+__ +_+_+
William Powell - Actor

George
July 9th 03, 09:46 PM
"Candide" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> "JoelnCaryn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
> > >arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
> > >of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their
> final
> > >disposition well before that.
> >
> > Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in
> my
> > family.
>
> Same here, the executor should have a copy of the document so there is
> no delay in putting into effect certain aspects of the Will. It is not
> always easy to locate the attorney in question and in some cases
> arrangements need to be made quite soon as burial must take place within
> a certain time period.
>
> Also it is helpful to have a second copy someplace just in case as a
> "back up", so someone besides the attorney knows what is what. Have
> heard reports of some very horrible attorneys that "doctored" Wills to
> bleed the estate dry. People dying without family and leaving their
> estate to be administered solely by an attorney can be open to abuse.
>
> Candide
>
After experiencing trying to locate original wills I wonder why the original
can't be sealed and filed someplace with a method for the executor to easily
obtain it? In my experience attorneys do not want to store your will.

I just helped a friend with a will problem. Her mother named her as the
executor and gave her a copy of the will. Her mother informed her that the
original was in a metal box in the closet. My friend's mother died and my
friend found the will and brought it to the Register of Wills for filing.
The Register of Wills immediately rejected it because it was not the
original. We spent days over a period of a month and finally discovered the
original was in a magazine.

George
July 9th 03, 09:46 PM
"Candide" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> "JoelnCaryn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >In my opinion, the will is the wrong place to specify burial
> > >arrangements - in New Jersey at least, the will is probated a minimum
> > >of 10 days after the death, and most bodies have undergone their
> final
> > >disposition well before that.
> >
> > Ordinarily someone else has a copy of it -- the executor always has in
> my
> > family.
>
> Same here, the executor should have a copy of the document so there is
> no delay in putting into effect certain aspects of the Will. It is not
> always easy to locate the attorney in question and in some cases
> arrangements need to be made quite soon as burial must take place within
> a certain time period.
>
> Also it is helpful to have a second copy someplace just in case as a
> "back up", so someone besides the attorney knows what is what. Have
> heard reports of some very horrible attorneys that "doctored" Wills to
> bleed the estate dry. People dying without family and leaving their
> estate to be administered solely by an attorney can be open to abuse.
>
> Candide
>
After experiencing trying to locate original wills I wonder why the original
can't be sealed and filed someplace with a method for the executor to easily
obtain it? In my experience attorneys do not want to store your will.

I just helped a friend with a will problem. Her mother named her as the
executor and gave her a copy of the will. Her mother informed her that the
original was in a metal box in the closet. My friend's mother died and my
friend found the will and brought it to the Register of Wills for filing.
The Register of Wills immediately rejected it because it was not the
original. We spent days over a period of a month and finally discovered the
original was in a magazine.

Colt
July 9th 03, 09:57 PM
JoelnCaryn wrote:
>
> >> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
> >> like
> >> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
> >wondering,
> >> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
> >> >
> >> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >> >logistics.
> >> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >> >relative is close to you,
> >> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> >> >understand their wishes.
> >>
> >> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> >> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> >> job.
> >
> >In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
> >actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
> >relative.
>
> My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One great-uncle
> went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
> specified "cremation, no funeral".
>
> This is one very good reason to have a will.


And to make sure your loved ones have a copy of it and that they know
your wishes are spelled out in it (many times a will is not read until
long after the deceased has been buried).

Colt
July 9th 03, 09:57 PM
JoelnCaryn wrote:
>
> >> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I feel
> >> like
> >> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
> >wondering,
> >> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes away?
> >> >
> >> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >> >logistics.
> >> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >> >relative is close to you,
> >> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure you
> >> >understand their wishes.
> >>
> >> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> >> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> >> job.
> >
> >In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
> >actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
> >relative.
>
> My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One great-uncle
> went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
> specified "cremation, no funeral".
>
> This is one very good reason to have a will.


And to make sure your loved ones have a copy of it and that they know
your wishes are spelled out in it (many times a will is not read until
long after the deceased has been buried).

ares
July 10th 03, 12:00 AM
To my knowledge, Jews ordinarily are not supposed to be cremated, but maybe
you already know this. The body is washed and clothed in white garments.
ares

"IleneB" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, ares
> > wrote:
>
> > It's a touchy
> > subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> Said relatives should tell some trusted person where their papers are
> (will, phone numbers, health care proxy, etc.) And of course, many
> people don't have such things. In my state, if a person dies without a
> will, the state takes half of everything. Mention that if a person is
> unwilling to deal with the realities.
>
> And it doesn't have to be about age/illness. It's about property, at
> least as far as wills go. You might try to be clear with the relative
> that it's not about you wanting to grub up their property or anything,
> but that matters (financial and otherwise) go the way that person
> wishes.
>
> Whoever is going to be "in charge" of funeral arrangements, etc., calls
> the funeral home. If the person dies in hospital, the body will be at
> the hospital morgue. If not, the funeral home or medical examiner's
> office pick up the body (if sudden at home or in public). The person
> "in charge" can contact church or whatever. It helps to know what a
> person might have wanted- religious service, "celebration", memorial,
> nothing. Cremation, burial.
>
> My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
> could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
> Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
> burial, I'll have him cremated.
>
> Ilene B

ares
July 10th 03, 12:00 AM
To my knowledge, Jews ordinarily are not supposed to be cremated, but maybe
you already know this. The body is washed and clothed in white garments.
ares

"IleneB" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, ares
> > wrote:
>
> > It's a touchy
> > subject I guess to discuss with the actual older relatives.
>
> Said relatives should tell some trusted person where their papers are
> (will, phone numbers, health care proxy, etc.) And of course, many
> people don't have such things. In my state, if a person dies without a
> will, the state takes half of everything. Mention that if a person is
> unwilling to deal with the realities.
>
> And it doesn't have to be about age/illness. It's about property, at
> least as far as wills go. You might try to be clear with the relative
> that it's not about you wanting to grub up their property or anything,
> but that matters (financial and otherwise) go the way that person
> wishes.
>
> Whoever is going to be "in charge" of funeral arrangements, etc., calls
> the funeral home. If the person dies in hospital, the body will be at
> the hospital morgue. If not, the funeral home or medical examiner's
> office pick up the body (if sudden at home or in public). The person
> "in charge" can contact church or whatever. It helps to know what a
> person might have wanted- religious service, "celebration", memorial,
> nothing. Cremation, burial.
>
> My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
> could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
> Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
> burial, I'll have him cremated.
>
> Ilene B

ares
July 10th 03, 12:12 AM
OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor. Thing
is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are all
blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines for
Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.
ares

"Chloe" > wrote in message
...
> "ares" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and
> haven't
> > reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm
sure
> > will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I
would
> > not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens
> as
> > he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask
> more
> > details myself.
> > ares
>
> Who does the will name as executor?
>
>

ares
July 10th 03, 12:12 AM
OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor. Thing
is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are all
blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines for
Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.
ares

"Chloe" > wrote in message
...
> "ares" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thank you; I actually have had a copy of the will for some time and
> haven't
> > reviewed it lately, but it's an uncomfortable subject; my sister I'm
sure
> > will not ask those types of things and I'm the oldest. Thing is, I
would
> > not want her husband taking over the whole affair if and when it happens
> as
> > he is quite aggressive, so perhaps I should get more aggressive and ask
> more
> > details myself.
> > ares
>
> Who does the will name as executor?
>
>

George
July 10th 03, 01:56 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
> representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor.
Thing
> is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are
all
> blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
> might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
> an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines
for
> Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.
> ares
>
What you have is probably not a valid will. One of the key features that
validates a will is that there must be the handwritten signature of the
maker and in most states the signature must be witnessed by two non
interested individuals.

I found a Google hit that cites that Montana decided that the term executor
be replaced by "personal representative"

George
July 10th 03, 01:56 AM
"ares" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
> representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor.
Thing
> is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are
all
> blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
> might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
> an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines
for
> Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.
> ares
>
What you have is probably not a valid will. One of the key features that
validates a will is that there must be the handwritten signature of the
maker and in most states the signature must be witnessed by two non
interested individuals.

I found a Google hit that cites that Montana decided that the term executor
be replaced by "personal representative"

lpogoda
July 10th 03, 02:49 AM
JoelnCaryn wrote in message
>...
>>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I
feel
>>> like
>>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
>>wondering,
>>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes
away?
>>> >
>>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>>> >logistics.
>>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>>> >relative is close to you,
>>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure
you
>>> >understand their wishes.
>>>
>>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
>>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
>>> job.
>>
>>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
>>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
>>relative.
>
>My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One
great-uncle
>went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
>specified "cremation, no funeral".
>
>This is one very good reason to have a will.


Not really, for a couple of reasons, at least:
1. You must wait until 10 days after the death (in NJ anyway) for the will
to be probated, and very few people wait that long before holding the
funeral
2. In Anglo-American common law, it is the next of kin that has the right
to control the disposition of the body - it is not part of the estate,
unlike the house, car, bank accounts, stock certificates, and other items of
real and personal property. I suppose the precise legal situation on this
point can and does vary from state to state.

Probate aside, legal ownership issues aside, I guess someone would have to
be somewhat obtuse to disregard the instructions or suggestions a loved one
made in a will.

On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
specified in the will? Suppose the estate wasn't big enough to pay for it
all, should the next of kin be obligated to make up the difference? Suppose
there was no estate beyond a few items of clothing and a month's rent paid
on an apartment?

lpogoda
July 10th 03, 02:49 AM
JoelnCaryn wrote in message
>...
>>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I
feel
>>> like
>>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
>>wondering,
>>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes
away?
>>> >
>>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
>>> >logistics.
>>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
>>> >relative is close to you,
>>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure
you
>>> >understand their wishes.
>>>
>>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
>>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
>>> job.
>>
>>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
>>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
>>relative.
>
>My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One
great-uncle
>went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
>specified "cremation, no funeral".
>
>This is one very good reason to have a will.


Not really, for a couple of reasons, at least:
1. You must wait until 10 days after the death (in NJ anyway) for the will
to be probated, and very few people wait that long before holding the
funeral
2. In Anglo-American common law, it is the next of kin that has the right
to control the disposition of the body - it is not part of the estate,
unlike the house, car, bank accounts, stock certificates, and other items of
real and personal property. I suppose the precise legal situation on this
point can and does vary from state to state.

Probate aside, legal ownership issues aside, I guess someone would have to
be somewhat obtuse to disregard the instructions or suggestions a loved one
made in a will.

On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
specified in the will? Suppose the estate wasn't big enough to pay for it
all, should the next of kin be obligated to make up the difference? Suppose
there was no estate beyond a few items of clothing and a month's rent paid
on an apartment?

Karen Wheless
July 10th 03, 02:57 AM
> Who does the will name as executor?

This is one reason not only to have a will, but to keep it updated. My
mother had a will, but it was so old that every person named in it as
possible executors was either dead or incapacitated. The bank named had
been through four name changes. The lawyer had retired and the law firm
where it was drawn up was no longer in business. The will itself was
very clear (everything went to me, her only child, and she had very few
assets) but since it hadn't been updated since I was a young child, it
required a lot more effort.

Karen

Karen Wheless
July 10th 03, 02:57 AM
> Who does the will name as executor?

This is one reason not only to have a will, but to keep it updated. My
mother had a will, but it was so old that every person named in it as
possible executors was either dead or incapacitated. The bank named had
been through four name changes. The lawyer had retired and the law firm
where it was drawn up was no longer in business. The will itself was
very clear (everything went to me, her only child, and she had very few
assets) but since it hadn't been updated since I was a young child, it
required a lot more effort.

Karen

lpogoda
July 10th 03, 02:59 AM
Candide wrote in message ...
>"lpogoda" > wrote in message
om...
>> (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
>> > misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through
>the
>> > > logistics.
>> >
>> > and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
>> > "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
>> > INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>>
>> I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
>> funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.
>>
>> There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
>> doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
>> no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
>> anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
>> require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
>> serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
>> myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.
>
>Many cemeteries require a vault also to keep "leaks" from entering the
>ground and then the water table.
>
I dunno, I'm reporting what I was told. Around here, that seems somewhat
unlikely, since we were told the minimally acceptable vault _will_ leak.

lpogoda
July 10th 03, 02:59 AM
Candide wrote in message ...
>"lpogoda" > wrote in message
om...
>> (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:32:26 -0400 in
>> > misc.consumers.frugal-living, "gini52" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through
>the
>> > > logistics.
>> >
>> > and talking you into expensive "extras" that the dear departed
>> > "would have wanted", which is why you need to find out AND PUT
>> > INTO WRITING what the departing wants for services, etc.
>>
>> I've heard this sort of thing all my life. All I can say is that, two
>> funerals down, nobody tried to talk us into anything.
>>
>> There was only one thing that we were "forced" to buy. New Jersey
>> doesn't require a burial vault, but some cemetaries do. It seems that
>> no one wants to get out a pick and shovel and dig a grave by hand
>> anymore, so cemetaries use a backhoe. Which is heavy. So they
>> require a vault to prevent caveins. Though I have a perfectly
>> serviceable shovel, I didn't ask if it would be OK if I dug the grave
>> myself, saving both the price of renting the backhoe and the vault.
>
>Many cemeteries require a vault also to keep "leaks" from entering the
>ground and then the water table.
>
I dunno, I'm reporting what I was told. Around here, that seems somewhat
unlikely, since we were told the minimally acceptable vault _will_ leak.

George
July 10th 03, 03:13 PM
"lpogoda" > wrote in message
...
>
> JoelnCaryn wrote in message
> >...
> >>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I
> feel
> >>> like
> >>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
> >>wondering,
> >>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes
> away?
> >>> >
> >>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >>> >logistics.
> >>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >>> >relative is close to you,
> >>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure
> you
> >>> >understand their wishes.
> >>>
> >>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> >>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> >>> job.
> >>
> >>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
> >>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
> >>relative.
> >
> >My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One
> great-uncle
> >went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
> >specified "cremation, no funeral".
> >
> >This is one very good reason to have a will.
>
>
> Not really, for a couple of reasons, at least:
> 1. You must wait until 10 days after the death (in NJ anyway) for the
will
> to be probated, and very few people wait that long before holding the
> funeral

Similar in PA, the will is just a piece of paper until it is formally
probated. Typically the executor has a copy so some people use it as a
convenient place to list their wishes. A better idea might be to write a
letter of instruction and give it to the responsible person.

> 2. In Anglo-American common law, it is the next of kin that has the right
> to control the disposition of the body - it is not part of the estate,
> unlike the house, car, bank accounts, stock certificates, and other items
of
> real and personal property. I suppose the precise legal situation on this
> point can and does vary from state to state.
>
> Probate aside, legal ownership issues aside, I guess someone would have to
> be somewhat obtuse to disregard the instructions or suggestions a loved
one
> made in a will.
>
> On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method
of
> final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion
of
> the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> specified in the will? Suppose the estate wasn't big enough to pay for it
> all, should the next of kin be obligated to make up the difference?
Suppose
> there was no estate beyond a few items of clothing and a month's rent paid
> on an apartment?

If the estate had sufficient funds then the deceased requests should be
fulfilled. It was their money. If there are insufficient funds then doing
what was in your budget would be appropriate.

George
July 10th 03, 03:13 PM
"lpogoda" > wrote in message
...
>
> JoelnCaryn wrote in message
> >...
> >>> >> I don't know if this is the place to ask this sort of thing, and I
> feel
> >>> like
> >>> >> sometimes I just don't know some basic life skills. But I was
> >>wondering,
> >>> >> what is a close relative supposed to do if their relative passes
> away?
> >>> >
> >>> >The undertaker is very helpful at guiding family members through the
> >>> >logistics.
> >>> >An atty/executor will handle the legal details of the estate. If the
> >>> >relative is close to you,
> >>> >you should discuss the will with the person who is dying to make sure
> you
> >>> >understand their wishes.
> >>>
> >>> The undertaker is also very, very good at separating the bereaved
> >>> family from as much of the estate as is humanly possible - that's his
> >>> job.
> >>
> >>In my opinion, only a very heedless person would wait until after the
> >>actual death to come about before planning a funeral for a close
> >>relative.
> >
> >My relatives tend to specify what they want in their wills. One
> great-uncle
> >went with the Neptune Society (www.neptunesociety.com), Grandpa's will
> >specified "cremation, no funeral".
> >
> >This is one very good reason to have a will.
>
>
> Not really, for a couple of reasons, at least:
> 1. You must wait until 10 days after the death (in NJ anyway) for the
will
> to be probated, and very few people wait that long before holding the
> funeral

Similar in PA, the will is just a piece of paper until it is formally
probated. Typically the executor has a copy so some people use it as a
convenient place to list their wishes. A better idea might be to write a
letter of instruction and give it to the responsible person.

> 2. In Anglo-American common law, it is the next of kin that has the right
> to control the disposition of the body - it is not part of the estate,
> unlike the house, car, bank accounts, stock certificates, and other items
of
> real and personal property. I suppose the precise legal situation on this
> point can and does vary from state to state.
>
> Probate aside, legal ownership issues aside, I guess someone would have to
> be somewhat obtuse to disregard the instructions or suggestions a loved
one
> made in a will.
>
> On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method
of
> final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion
of
> the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> specified in the will? Suppose the estate wasn't big enough to pay for it
> all, should the next of kin be obligated to make up the difference?
Suppose
> there was no estate beyond a few items of clothing and a month's rent paid
> on an apartment?

If the estate had sufficient funds then the deceased requests should be
fulfilled. It was their money. If there are insufficient funds then doing
what was in your budget would be appropriate.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:11 AM
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:49:25 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> wrote:

> On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
> final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
> the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> specified in the will?

yes. it's not "should": if the will specifies it, it MUST be
done by the executor until the money runs out.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:11 AM
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:49:25 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> wrote:

> On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
> final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
> the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> specified in the will?

yes. it's not "should": if the will specifies it, it MUST be
done by the executor until the money runs out.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:13 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:46:54 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"George" > wrote:

> After experiencing trying to locate original wills I wonder why the original
> can't be sealed and filed someplace with a method for the executor to easily
> obtain it? In my experience attorneys do not want to store your will.
>
in many states they can be recorded at the county courthouse,
just like deeds.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:13 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:46:54 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"George" > wrote:

> After experiencing trying to locate original wills I wonder why the original
> can't be sealed and filed someplace with a method for the executor to easily
> obtain it? In my experience attorneys do not want to store your will.
>
in many states they can be recorded at the county courthouse,
just like deeds.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:19 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:12:58 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"ares" > wrote:

> OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
> representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor. Thing
> is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are all
> blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
> might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
> an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines for
> Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.

if it was notarized, witnesses are usually not required. if it
was not, it could be challenged. if i were you, i'd talk to an
attorney NOW.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:19 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:12:58 GMT in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
"ares" > wrote:

> OK, I'm looking at the thing now; it appoints sis and I as the personal
> representatives and I'm wondering if that means the same as executor. Thing
> is, the copy I have has no signatures on it for witnesses; the lines are all
> blank and I wonder if perhaps this is valid or not. I think perhaps it
> might be a good idea to show it to another lawyer to review. There's also
> an amendment to a living trust, and we're successor trustees, and lines for
> Grantor, Trustee, and Witnesses are blank.

if it was notarized, witnesses are usually not required. if it
was not, it could be challenged. if i were you, i'd talk to an
attorney NOW.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:22 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:08:00 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, IleneB > wrote:

> My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
> could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
> Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
> burial, I'll have him cremated.
>
he doesn't have to leave money. if he's a veteran, the VA will
pay for his burial. see http://www.cem.va.gov/burial.htm ---
they will also pay for the grave marker.

Dennis P. Harris
July 11th 03, 08:22 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:08:00 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, IleneB > wrote:

> My father made his arrangements (with much urging) because only he
> could set up being buried at a VA cemetery, his only wish (and that a
> Jewish star be on his stone). Unless he leaves money/instructions for
> burial, I'll have him cremated.
>
he doesn't have to leave money. if he's a veteran, the VA will
pay for his burial. see http://www.cem.va.gov/burial.htm ---
they will also pay for the grave marker.

lpogoda
July 11th 03, 08:01 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:49:25 -0400 in
> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> > wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
> > final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> > the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> > expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
> > the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> > specified in the will?
>
> yes. it's not "should": if the will specifies it, it MUST be
> done by the executor until the money runs out.

See, I think we're losing perspective here. A person's will directs
the disposal/distribution of that person's assets after death. In New
Jersey, you have to wait 10 days after the death before the will can
be probabted, before the executor can take it to the courthouse and be
acknowledged as the one with the legal right, duty, and ability to pay
the bills and distribute the assets.

By then, the body has probably been cremated, buried at sea, buried,
fed to the buzzards, or whatever, for a week or more. For that
reasone, a will is not, I don't think, a good place to leave funeral
instructions.

lpogoda
July 11th 03, 08:01 PM
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:49:25 -0400 in
> misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> > wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, suppose that instead of specifying some frugal method of
> > final disposal that would maximize the benefit of the estate to the heirs,
> > the now dead person specified an elaborate funeral, high priced casket,
> > expensive funeral home, etc.? Suppose this ate up a substantial portion of
> > the estate - should the next of kin be _obligated_ to do this because it's
> > specified in the will?
>
> yes. it's not "should": if the will specifies it, it MUST be
> done by the executor until the money runs out.

See, I think we're losing perspective here. A person's will directs
the disposal/distribution of that person's assets after death. In New
Jersey, you have to wait 10 days after the death before the will can
be probabted, before the executor can take it to the courthouse and be
acknowledged as the one with the legal right, duty, and ability to pay
the bills and distribute the assets.

By then, the body has probably been cremated, buried at sea, buried,
fed to the buzzards, or whatever, for a week or more. For that
reasone, a will is not, I don't think, a good place to leave funeral
instructions.

lpogoda
July 12th 03, 02:31 AM
ares wrote in message ...
>But then, if it's not IN the will, does it still have to be carried out?
>ares


Well, that's kind of part of my point. The will directs the disposition of
the assets of the estate. The body of the deceased is not an asset of the
estate. I think it's generally regarded as the "property" of the next of
kin, and even then only in a limited sense - the next of kin can decide on
what sort of arrangements they want to make for funerals and such, but they
can't sell body parts for transplants or blood transfusions or practice
cadavers. And since the body is taken care of usually before the will has
any force, directions in the will for the final disposition don't have to
be carried out.

It seems to me that if a person really has a preference as to how things
will be done, the best s/he can do is make and pay for the arrangements
beforehand. It's no guarantee, the family may still decide to do something
else.

I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but that's how I see it.

lpogoda
July 12th 03, 02:31 AM
ares wrote in message ...
>But then, if it's not IN the will, does it still have to be carried out?
>ares


Well, that's kind of part of my point. The will directs the disposition of
the assets of the estate. The body of the deceased is not an asset of the
estate. I think it's generally regarded as the "property" of the next of
kin, and even then only in a limited sense - the next of kin can decide on
what sort of arrangements they want to make for funerals and such, but they
can't sell body parts for transplants or blood transfusions or practice
cadavers. And since the body is taken care of usually before the will has
any force, directions in the will for the final disposition don't have to
be carried out.

It seems to me that if a person really has a preference as to how things
will be done, the best s/he can do is make and pay for the arrangements
beforehand. It's no guarantee, the family may still decide to do something
else.

I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but that's how I see it.

Dennis P. Harris
July 12th 03, 06:19 AM
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:31:02 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> wrote:

> I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but that's how I see it.
>
it's obvious you're not a lawyer. if a person directs in the
will that money be spent on a funeral, it must be done. there is
not requirement that the funeral happen immediately. in alaska,
where folks often have to travel long distances to come for
funerals, and where the ground is frozen *very* hard for at least
5 months most winters, it's not unusual to delay funerals until
after the spring thaw --- the body is just kept in a freezer
until then.

and in some states, there is no requirement to wait 10 days to
file a will, or to read it and the instructions.

i took the easy way --- i left an envelope with my durable power
of attorney person that contains a couple of savings bonds that
either he or i can cash --- it's to pay for my wake, and to pay
the piper for my memorial service, since i want to be cremated.

that way, if i die in debt, the creditors can't stop him from
cashing the bonds and holding the wake.

Dennis P. Harris
July 12th 03, 06:19 AM
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:31:02 -0400 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, "lpogoda"
> wrote:

> I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but that's how I see it.
>
it's obvious you're not a lawyer. if a person directs in the
will that money be spent on a funeral, it must be done. there is
not requirement that the funeral happen immediately. in alaska,
where folks often have to travel long distances to come for
funerals, and where the ground is frozen *very* hard for at least
5 months most winters, it's not unusual to delay funerals until
after the spring thaw --- the body is just kept in a freezer
until then.

and in some states, there is no requirement to wait 10 days to
file a will, or to read it and the instructions.

i took the easy way --- i left an envelope with my durable power
of attorney person that contains a couple of savings bonds that
either he or i can cash --- it's to pay for my wake, and to pay
the piper for my memorial service, since i want to be cremated.

that way, if i die in debt, the creditors can't stop him from
cashing the bonds and holding the wake.

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