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Ralph Wood
July 13th 03, 03:19 PM
I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
none of them that clean oil.

Ralph

JazzMan
July 13th 03, 06:46 PM
Ralph Wood wrote:
>
> I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.

Dirty oil doesn't "foul" the injection systems, water pump,
transmissions,
etc. Those systems have no contact with engine oil at all, unless a
catastrophic failure has occured such as a rod going out the side of
the block, etc. In thot case, you've got bigger problems than dirty
oil.

Oil filters do exactly what they're designed to do, that is to filter
out particles that are large enough to damage engine bearings and other
lubricated wear surfaces. All filters do this quite well. About the only
filter feature that you should make sure your filter has is an anti-
drainback check valve. Some filters have it, some don't. This valve
keeps oil in the engine's passageways so that when you do a cold start,
when 90% of all engine wear occurs, it will take less time to bring the
oil system up to pressure.

As far as oil getting dirty, no filter can help that process. That's
because two things happen, acid contamination and additive package
breakdown. The acid contamination occors as exhaust gasses blow by
the piston rings. That can't be prevented, that's just the way
piston engines are. The exhaust gasses disolve in the oil, forming
acids and other contaminants. Oils come with additive packages that
contain, among other things, compounds that help neutralize this
acid contamination. However, once those compounds are used up then
the contamination becomes a wear problem for the engine bearings.
Other additives allow the oil to be multi-viscosity, which means that
when you first start the engine the oil is thin and easily circulates
through the engine to lube everthing, and after driving for a while
the oil stays thick enough to properly keep all the bearings lubed.
These additives also break down with time and engine protection is
reduces as a result.

No filter can affect this process, but that doesn't stop filter
makers from preying on gullible people.

JazzMan

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***************************************
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
***************************************

JazzMan
July 13th 03, 06:46 PM
Ralph Wood wrote:
>
> I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.

Dirty oil doesn't "foul" the injection systems, water pump,
transmissions,
etc. Those systems have no contact with engine oil at all, unless a
catastrophic failure has occured such as a rod going out the side of
the block, etc. In thot case, you've got bigger problems than dirty
oil.

Oil filters do exactly what they're designed to do, that is to filter
out particles that are large enough to damage engine bearings and other
lubricated wear surfaces. All filters do this quite well. About the only
filter feature that you should make sure your filter has is an anti-
drainback check valve. Some filters have it, some don't. This valve
keeps oil in the engine's passageways so that when you do a cold start,
when 90% of all engine wear occurs, it will take less time to bring the
oil system up to pressure.

As far as oil getting dirty, no filter can help that process. That's
because two things happen, acid contamination and additive package
breakdown. The acid contamination occors as exhaust gasses blow by
the piston rings. That can't be prevented, that's just the way
piston engines are. The exhaust gasses disolve in the oil, forming
acids and other contaminants. Oils come with additive packages that
contain, among other things, compounds that help neutralize this
acid contamination. However, once those compounds are used up then
the contamination becomes a wear problem for the engine bearings.
Other additives allow the oil to be multi-viscosity, which means that
when you first start the engine the oil is thin and easily circulates
through the engine to lube everthing, and after driving for a while
the oil stays thick enough to properly keep all the bearings lubed.
These additives also break down with time and engine protection is
reduces as a result.

No filter can affect this process, but that doesn't stop filter
makers from preying on gullible people.

JazzMan

--
***************************************
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
***************************************

Ralph Wood
July 16th 03, 06:07 AM
The people that use filters that clean oil sometimes use the filters
to clean the fuel, coolant and ATF. I would be suspicous if my oil got
dirty instead of the filter. I wouldn't be too happy with a 15 micron
fuel filter when the injection system has 2 micron clearance. To me
gullable is when you purchase a filter that doesn't clean oil then go
back for an oil drain and another filter that doesn't clean oil. There
are two kinds of abrasives. The large engine damaging abrasives of
which there are few in a good engine and the smaller engine wearing
abrasives of which there are millions. Most of the TP filter makers
have gone to their own elements. I use Scott Kimberly Clark in mine.
At work I use main street from a janitorial supply. The company
furnishes Kimberly Clark wipes for the big diesel engines.
Additives last a long time in clean oil. New oil added at filter
change keeps the additive package up. Most of the paper towel filters
go to the Department of Defense. The best filter GM sells is a paper
towel filter. They sell them because some government agencies are
requiring them on delivery. The North Carolina DOT for example.
Navistar also factory installs them. Filters that clean oil have been
around a lot longer than filters that don't clean oil. The problem is
oil waste generates more profit than oil conservation.

Ralph


JazzMan > wrote in message >...
> Ralph Wood wrote:
> >
> > I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> > and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> > to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> > oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> > fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
>
> Dirty oil doesn't "foul" the injection systems, water pump,
> transmissions,
> etc. Those systems have no contact with engine oil at all, unless a
> catastrophic failure has occured such as a rod going out the side of
> the block, etc. In thot case, you've got bigger problems than dirty
> oil.
>
> Oil filters do exactly what they're designed to do, that is to filter
> out particles that are large enough to damage engine bearings and other
> lubricated wear surfaces. All filters do this quite well. About the only
> filter feature that you should make sure your filter has is an anti-
> drainback check valve. Some filters have it, some don't. This valve
> keeps oil in the engine's passageways so that when you do a cold start,
> when 90% of all engine wear occurs, it will take less time to bring the
> oil system up to pressure.
>
> As far as oil getting dirty, no filter can help that process. That's
> because two things happen, acid contamination and additive package
> breakdown. The acid contamination occors as exhaust gasses blow by
> the piston rings. That can't be prevented, that's just the way
> piston engines are. The exhaust gasses disolve in the oil, forming
> acids and other contaminants. Oils come with additive packages that
> contain, among other things, compounds that help neutralize this
> acid contamination. However, once those compounds are used up then
> the contamination becomes a wear problem for the engine bearings.
> Other additives allow the oil to be multi-viscosity, which means that
> when you first start the engine the oil is thin and easily circulates
> through the engine to lube everthing, and after driving for a while
> the oil stays thick enough to properly keep all the bearings lubed.
> These additives also break down with time and engine protection is
> reduces as a result.
>
> No filter can affect this process, but that doesn't stop filter
> makers from preying on gullible people.
>
> JazzMan

Ralph Wood
July 16th 03, 06:07 AM
The people that use filters that clean oil sometimes use the filters
to clean the fuel, coolant and ATF. I would be suspicous if my oil got
dirty instead of the filter. I wouldn't be too happy with a 15 micron
fuel filter when the injection system has 2 micron clearance. To me
gullable is when you purchase a filter that doesn't clean oil then go
back for an oil drain and another filter that doesn't clean oil. There
are two kinds of abrasives. The large engine damaging abrasives of
which there are few in a good engine and the smaller engine wearing
abrasives of which there are millions. Most of the TP filter makers
have gone to their own elements. I use Scott Kimberly Clark in mine.
At work I use main street from a janitorial supply. The company
furnishes Kimberly Clark wipes for the big diesel engines.
Additives last a long time in clean oil. New oil added at filter
change keeps the additive package up. Most of the paper towel filters
go to the Department of Defense. The best filter GM sells is a paper
towel filter. They sell them because some government agencies are
requiring them on delivery. The North Carolina DOT for example.
Navistar also factory installs them. Filters that clean oil have been
around a lot longer than filters that don't clean oil. The problem is
oil waste generates more profit than oil conservation.

Ralph


JazzMan > wrote in message >...
> Ralph Wood wrote:
> >
> > I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> > and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> > to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> > oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> > fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
>
> Dirty oil doesn't "foul" the injection systems, water pump,
> transmissions,
> etc. Those systems have no contact with engine oil at all, unless a
> catastrophic failure has occured such as a rod going out the side of
> the block, etc. In thot case, you've got bigger problems than dirty
> oil.
>
> Oil filters do exactly what they're designed to do, that is to filter
> out particles that are large enough to damage engine bearings and other
> lubricated wear surfaces. All filters do this quite well. About the only
> filter feature that you should make sure your filter has is an anti-
> drainback check valve. Some filters have it, some don't. This valve
> keeps oil in the engine's passageways so that when you do a cold start,
> when 90% of all engine wear occurs, it will take less time to bring the
> oil system up to pressure.
>
> As far as oil getting dirty, no filter can help that process. That's
> because two things happen, acid contamination and additive package
> breakdown. The acid contamination occors as exhaust gasses blow by
> the piston rings. That can't be prevented, that's just the way
> piston engines are. The exhaust gasses disolve in the oil, forming
> acids and other contaminants. Oils come with additive packages that
> contain, among other things, compounds that help neutralize this
> acid contamination. However, once those compounds are used up then
> the contamination becomes a wear problem for the engine bearings.
> Other additives allow the oil to be multi-viscosity, which means that
> when you first start the engine the oil is thin and easily circulates
> through the engine to lube everthing, and after driving for a while
> the oil stays thick enough to properly keep all the bearings lubed.
> These additives also break down with time and engine protection is
> reduces as a result.
>
> No filter can affect this process, but that doesn't stop filter
> makers from preying on gullible people.
>
> JazzMan

R.White
July 16th 03, 03:03 PM
(Ralph Wood) wrote in message >...
> I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
> I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
> ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
> none of them that clean oil.
>


I can see that you sell them. Spammer.

R.White
July 16th 03, 03:03 PM
(Ralph Wood) wrote in message >...
> I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
> I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
> ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
> none of them that clean oil.
>


I can see that you sell them. Spammer.

Ralph Wood
July 18th 03, 05:37 AM
(R.White) wrote in message >...
> (Ralph Wood) wrote in message >...
> > I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> > and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> > to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> > oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> > fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
> > I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
> > ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
> > none of them that clean oil.
> >
>
>
> I can see that you sell them. Spammer.

Some people can see that allowing lube oil to get dirty wear and foul
the engine then draining it is not frugal. I gave up dirty oil and oil
changes 40 years ago. That's frugal living.

Ralph

Ralph Wood
July 18th 03, 05:37 AM
(R.White) wrote in message >...
> (Ralph Wood) wrote in message >...
> > I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> > and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> > to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> > oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> > fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
> > I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
> > ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
> > none of them that clean oil.
> >
>
>
> I can see that you sell them. Spammer.

Some people can see that allowing lube oil to get dirty wear and foul
the engine then draining it is not frugal. I gave up dirty oil and oil
changes 40 years ago. That's frugal living.

Ralph

Ralph Wood
July 20th 03, 12:49 AM
> > Some people can see that allowing lube oil to get dirty wear and foul
> > the engine then draining it is not frugal. I gave up dirty oil and oil
> > changes 40 years ago. That's frugal living.
>
> Yeah, at prices from $118 to $555, you're doing pretty well.
>
> Spammer.

Hi,

I paid 29.95 for my first filter in 1963. I used it long enough to
save several thousand dollars on needless oil changes and engine wear.
In 1963 I could buy a filter that didn't clean oil for less than a
dollar. Oil was about 29 cents a qt. I retired the old filter about 10
years ago but 29.95 for 30 years of clean oil isn't bad. In 1963 I
could get high quality refill elements for less than 15 cents. Now I
pay less than 1.00. The origional cost isn't what gets you.

Ralph

Ralph Wood
July 20th 03, 12:49 AM
> > Some people can see that allowing lube oil to get dirty wear and foul
> > the engine then draining it is not frugal. I gave up dirty oil and oil
> > changes 40 years ago. That's frugal living.
>
> Yeah, at prices from $118 to $555, you're doing pretty well.
>
> Spammer.

Hi,

I paid 29.95 for my first filter in 1963. I used it long enough to
save several thousand dollars on needless oil changes and engine wear.
In 1963 I could buy a filter that didn't clean oil for less than a
dollar. Oil was about 29 cents a qt. I retired the old filter about 10
years ago but 29.95 for 30 years of clean oil isn't bad. In 1963 I
could get high quality refill elements for less than 15 cents. Now I
pay less than 1.00. The origional cost isn't what gets you.

Ralph

Peale
July 21st 03, 04:50 PM
(R.White) scribbled furiously in
om:

> Yeah, at prices from $118 to $555, you're doing pretty well.
>
> Spammer.

He's not spamming, as he has not put his website anywhere, including his
..sig. The fact that he uses his domain as his email address is
irrelevant.

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