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Joe Agro
July 17th 03, 04:45 AM
Ebay...

Regards,
Joe - VROC #8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com - 973.571.1456 24/7

Ask me about "The Ride" on July 26: http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

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"ceniza" > wrote in message
...
> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.
>
>
>

Anthony Matonak
July 17th 03, 04:50 AM
ceniza wrote:
> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

You might try Ebay. I've seen a few for sale on occasion there.
You might also try this link:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/park/abm64/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqp4.html

That said, the concept of a "mainframe" is outdated. Today they are
called servers and often are little more than slightly enhanced PC's.
The older cray "Supercomputers" were only Super in the sense that they
outperformed the other computers at the time. Considering that the
power and speed of computers doubles roughly every year and a half
then you'll find that an ordinary PC of today often has much more
power than a Supercomputer from a few years ago.

If you really want cheap horsepower today then I would recommend
building your own server farm and using clustering or distributed
processing to make them all work as a single unit. You can buy 1U
rack mount servers fairly easily and a single rack can hold dozens
of them. Link 30 or 40 of these with fiber optic networking and
you should have enough processing power to do most ordinary tasks.

Anthony

Anthony Matonak
July 17th 03, 04:50 AM
ceniza wrote:
> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

You might try Ebay. I've seen a few for sale on occasion there.
You might also try this link:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/park/abm64/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqp4.html

That said, the concept of a "mainframe" is outdated. Today they are
called servers and often are little more than slightly enhanced PC's.
The older cray "Supercomputers" were only Super in the sense that they
outperformed the other computers at the time. Considering that the
power and speed of computers doubles roughly every year and a half
then you'll find that an ordinary PC of today often has much more
power than a Supercomputer from a few years ago.

If you really want cheap horsepower today then I would recommend
building your own server farm and using clustering or distributed
processing to make them all work as a single unit. You can buy 1U
rack mount servers fairly easily and a single rack can hold dozens
of them. Link 30 or 40 of these with fiber optic networking and
you should have enough processing power to do most ordinary tasks.

Anthony

Gary Heston
July 17th 03, 04:57 AM
In article >,
ceniza > wrote:
>I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
>way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

Here's a Cray J916, should be in working order:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3035699455&category=1484

Or a Cray EL98 needing a few parts:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3035947551&category=1484

There are other mainframes, although a lot of people selling AS400 parts
clutter up the site thinking they belong there. Beware the cost of the
operating system; those can be _real_ expensive.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

Gary Heston
July 17th 03, 04:57 AM
In article >,
ceniza > wrote:
>I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
>way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

Here's a Cray J916, should be in working order:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3035699455&category=1484

Or a Cray EL98 needing a few parts:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3035947551&category=1484

There are other mainframes, although a lot of people selling AS400 parts
clutter up the site thinking they belong there. Beware the cost of the
operating system; those can be _real_ expensive.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

Fritz M
July 17th 03, 07:46 PM
Anthony Matonak > wrote:

> That said, the concept of a "mainframe" is outdated.

The concept of mainframes being outdated is (somewhat) outdated.

Comparing yesteryear's supercomputers with today's PCs is a strawman.
Compare today's large servers with todays PCs and you'll find the
situation is just slightly different.

> Considering that the
> power and speed of computers doubles roughly every year and a half
> then you'll find that an ordinary PC of today often has much more
> power than a Supercomputer from a few years ago.

For those using large computers it's all about the I/O capacity, not
the computing power. Backplane capacity increases over time, but not
nearly as quickly as computing speed does. There are some
interesting innovations in I/O from ten years ago that are commonly
used in "mainframe" type servers that have yet to see the light of
day in PCs.

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha.
4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

Fritz M
July 17th 03, 07:46 PM
Anthony Matonak > wrote:

> That said, the concept of a "mainframe" is outdated.

The concept of mainframes being outdated is (somewhat) outdated.

Comparing yesteryear's supercomputers with today's PCs is a strawman.
Compare today's large servers with todays PCs and you'll find the
situation is just slightly different.

> Considering that the
> power and speed of computers doubles roughly every year and a half
> then you'll find that an ordinary PC of today often has much more
> power than a Supercomputer from a few years ago.

For those using large computers it's all about the I/O capacity, not
the computing power. Backplane capacity increases over time, but not
nearly as quickly as computing speed does. There are some
interesting innovations in I/O from ten years ago that are commonly
used in "mainframe" type servers that have yet to see the light of
day in PCs.

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha.
4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

Rejnold Byzio
July 18th 03, 09:15 PM
"ceniza" >:

> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of
> a good way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

You don't need to buy one. Try <http://www.cray-cyber.org/>.

Rejnold

Rejnold Byzio
July 18th 03, 09:15 PM
"ceniza" >:

> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of
> a good way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

You don't need to buy one. Try <http://www.cray-cyber.org/>.

Rejnold

Me
July 19th 03, 02:32 PM
In article >,
"ceniza" > wrote:

> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

Hah! I work in the computer industry with mainframes. Mainframe hardware
is dirt cheap on the used market, but not as cheap as a PC. What's
really the killer is the utilities. You can just plug a typical
mainframe into a standard 120volt outlet, you need a special phased line
for it. Then there's the cost of software. If you think Microsoft's $120
or whatever for Winblows XP is costly, wait to you see what it costs to
set up a mainframe with an OS.

Me
July 19th 03, 02:32 PM
In article >,
"ceniza" > wrote:

> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

Hah! I work in the computer industry with mainframes. Mainframe hardware
is dirt cheap on the used market, but not as cheap as a PC. What's
really the killer is the utilities. You can just plug a typical
mainframe into a standard 120volt outlet, you need a special phased line
for it. Then there's the cost of software. If you think Microsoft's $120
or whatever for Winblows XP is costly, wait to you see what it costs to
set up a mainframe with an OS.

Gary Heston
July 19th 03, 03:29 PM
In article >,
Me > wrote:
>In article >,
> "ceniza" > wrote:

>> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
>> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

>Hah! I work in the computer industry with mainframes. Mainframe hardware
>is dirt cheap on the used market, but not as cheap as a PC. What's
>really the killer is the utilities. You can just plug a typical
>mainframe into a standard 120volt outlet, you need a special phased line
>for it.

Depends upon the system. Some require three-phase connections; some just
pretend to (like VAX 6200 series hardware; it can be modified to run off
of regular 220V single phase circuits). Cooling is usually a big issue,
too.

> Then there's the cost of software. If you think Microsoft's $120
>or whatever for Winblows XP is costly, wait to you see what it costs to
>set up a mainframe with an OS.

Newer AS400 systems have an OS license tied to the unit (associated with
a change in the case color--I think the newer ones are beige), no matter
how many hands it passes through. The old ones (black case) still require
a OS license to be purchased, at a cost of $20,000--for some reason, IBM
didn't extend the change to the older systems.

On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

Gary Heston
July 19th 03, 03:29 PM
In article >,
Me > wrote:
>In article >,
> "ceniza" > wrote:

>> I'm tired of playing around with PCs. Does anyone know of a good
>> way to buy a mainframe on the cheap? Prefer a Cray.

>Hah! I work in the computer industry with mainframes. Mainframe hardware
>is dirt cheap on the used market, but not as cheap as a PC. What's
>really the killer is the utilities. You can just plug a typical
>mainframe into a standard 120volt outlet, you need a special phased line
>for it.

Depends upon the system. Some require three-phase connections; some just
pretend to (like VAX 6200 series hardware; it can be modified to run off
of regular 220V single phase circuits). Cooling is usually a big issue,
too.

> Then there's the cost of software. If you think Microsoft's $120
>or whatever for Winblows XP is costly, wait to you see what it costs to
>set up a mainframe with an OS.

Newer AS400 systems have an OS license tied to the unit (associated with
a change in the case color--I think the newer ones are beige), no matter
how many hands it passes through. The old ones (black case) still require
a OS license to be purchased, at a cost of $20,000--for some reason, IBM
didn't extend the change to the older systems.

On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

Dennis P. Harris
July 20th 03, 08:44 AM
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:29:13 -0000 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, (Gary Heston)
wrote:

> On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
> Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.
>
or you can find bsd unix or linux to run on a vax...

Dennis P. Harris
July 20th 03, 08:44 AM
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:29:13 -0000 in
misc.consumers.frugal-living, (Gary Heston)
wrote:

> On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
> Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.
>
or you can find bsd unix or linux to run on a vax...

Gary Heston
July 20th 03, 05:06 PM
In article >,
Dennis P. Harris > wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:29:13 -0000 in
>misc.consumers.frugal-living, (Gary Heston)
>wrote:

>> On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
>> Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.

>or you can find bsd unix or linux to run on a vax...

I don't know of a free BSD package that'll run on my 6200 series monsters
(about 2.5' square, 6' tall, easily 1000 pounds each) and while there
was a Linux port sort of being worked on, I don't think it was ever
completed.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

Gary Heston
July 20th 03, 05:06 PM
In article >,
Dennis P. Harris > wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:29:13 -0000 in
>misc.consumers.frugal-living, (Gary Heston)
>wrote:

>> On the other hand, you can get one-release-old VMS for about $30 from
>> Compaq, if you want to run old VAX hardware.

>or you can find bsd unix or linux to run on a vax...

I don't know of a free BSD package that'll run on my 6200 series monsters
(about 2.5' square, 6' tall, easily 1000 pounds each) and while there
was a Linux port sort of being worked on, I don't think it was ever
completed.


Gary

--
Gary Heston
PHB: "That's the sort of leadership that will turn this company around."
Wally: "Were we doing well?"
Dilbert, 5/23/3

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