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View Full Version : Re: converting frost free freezers


Bob Brock
July 18th 03, 08:07 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:43:07 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> wrote:
>
>>It is possible to disconnect the heater, as the other poster metnioned. And
>>then it frosts over, and the food warms up.
>>
>>Best bet is to put the food in plastic containers (I like the "shoebox" kind
>>you get at the discount stores.
>
>Um, suggest that you all consider what causes what is known as
>"freezer burn".
>
>From a food technology point of view, fairly obvious.
>
>All plant and animal cells contain water. The slower you freeze any
>product, from an animal, vegatable, or fruit source, the larger the
>ice crystals grow.
>
>Eventually they grow large enough to rupture the cell walls, and the
>cells dehydrate. Hence, "freezer burn".
>
>If you want to preserve animal or plant cells by freezing, then have
>to rapidly chill down to well below normal freezing temperatures so
>that only small crystals form so the cell walls are not broken.

http://www.astro.washington.edu/tmurphy/phys110/faqs/AC08.02.html


As for freezer burn, this is due to exposure to air. Not only is food
dehydrated by cold, dry air, but some oxidation may also occur. I
don't think biological processes (bacteria) are important in the
freezer environment, just the air contact. Note that often freezer
burn is accompanied by frost buildup--a sure sign that there's been
significant exposure to air. To prevent freezer burn, wrap things
positively air-tight.


>
>Basic physics, but with the recent insults from Gunner and others
>cannot see why I should share such info with such people.
>
>
>
SInce it was inaccurate, who cares why you did it?

erniegalts
July 18th 03, 09:41 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:07 -0400, Bob Brock >
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:43:07 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> wrote:
>>
>>>It is possible to disconnect the heater, as the other poster metnioned. And
>>>then it frosts over, and the food warms up.
>>>
>>>Best bet is to put the food in plastic containers (I like the "shoebox" kind
>>>you get at the discount stores.
>>
>>Um, suggest that you all consider what causes what is known as
>>"freezer burn".
>>
>>From a food technology point of view, fairly obvious.
>>
>>All plant and animal cells contain water. The slower you freeze any
>>product, from an animal, vegatable, or fruit source, the larger the
>>ice crystals grow.
>>
>>Eventually they grow large enough to rupture the cell walls, and the
>>cells dehydrate. Hence, "freezer burn".
>>
>>If you want to preserve animal or plant cells by freezing, then have
>>to rapidly chill down to well below normal freezing temperatures so
>>that only small crystals form so the cell walls are not broken.
>
>http://www.astro.washington.edu/tmurphy/phys110/faqs/AC08.02.html
>
>
>As for freezer burn, this is due to exposure to air. Not only is food
>dehydrated by cold, dry air, but some oxidation may also occur.

In a quick freeze environment? Know what a quick freeze blast tunnel
is? How about immersion in liquid nitrogen?

Both technologies at least 35 to 40 years old. :-)

> I
>don't think biological processes (bacteria) are important in the
>freezer environment, just the air contact.

Few food products are really "sterile" in a bacteriological sense.
However, if talking about "spoilage" in this sense are talking about
gross bacteriological multiplication, and usually pathogens at that.

>Yoy Note that often freezer
>burn is accompanied by frost buildup--a sure sign that there's been
>significant exposure to air. To prevent freezer burn, wrap things
>positively air-tight.

You misunderstand the process. Air exposure doesn't matter.
>
>
>>
>>Basic physics, but with the recent insults from Gunner and others
>>cannot see why I should share such info with such people.
>>
>SInce it was inaccurate, who cares why you did it?

As you are demonstrating ignorance of basic food technology, who cares
if you understand or not? :-)

If you think that you know more than I do about the subject, then
feel free to mislead others.

Not my problem, really.

Suppose that Glickman, or others, tell you that you are as "full of
**** as the traditional Christmas Goose".

Do you think that we care? Nope. Hardly.

Gunner, or others, can provide the group with useful technical info
and most of us will listen. Political info and we probably won't.

Why do you think that we should listen to you?

....But doesn't really matter, does it?

Personally, I don't give a **** if you do or don't understand the
concept of "freezer burn".

If you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, or learn by
the good old method of "trial and error".

The original idea of "misc.survivalism" is that we tried to learn from
one another.

However, if you think you know better than anyone else, why should I,
or anyone else, possibly try to help you?

erniegalts
July 18th 03, 09:41 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:07 -0400, Bob Brock >
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:43:07 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> wrote:
>>
>>>It is possible to disconnect the heater, as the other poster metnioned. And
>>>then it frosts over, and the food warms up.
>>>
>>>Best bet is to put the food in plastic containers (I like the "shoebox" kind
>>>you get at the discount stores.
>>
>>Um, suggest that you all consider what causes what is known as
>>"freezer burn".
>>
>>From a food technology point of view, fairly obvious.
>>
>>All plant and animal cells contain water. The slower you freeze any
>>product, from an animal, vegatable, or fruit source, the larger the
>>ice crystals grow.
>>
>>Eventually they grow large enough to rupture the cell walls, and the
>>cells dehydrate. Hence, "freezer burn".
>>
>>If you want to preserve animal or plant cells by freezing, then have
>>to rapidly chill down to well below normal freezing temperatures so
>>that only small crystals form so the cell walls are not broken.
>
>http://www.astro.washington.edu/tmurphy/phys110/faqs/AC08.02.html
>
>
>As for freezer burn, this is due to exposure to air. Not only is food
>dehydrated by cold, dry air, but some oxidation may also occur.

In a quick freeze environment? Know what a quick freeze blast tunnel
is? How about immersion in liquid nitrogen?

Both technologies at least 35 to 40 years old. :-)

> I
>don't think biological processes (bacteria) are important in the
>freezer environment, just the air contact.

Few food products are really "sterile" in a bacteriological sense.
However, if talking about "spoilage" in this sense are talking about
gross bacteriological multiplication, and usually pathogens at that.

>Yoy Note that often freezer
>burn is accompanied by frost buildup--a sure sign that there's been
>significant exposure to air. To prevent freezer burn, wrap things
>positively air-tight.

You misunderstand the process. Air exposure doesn't matter.
>
>
>>
>>Basic physics, but with the recent insults from Gunner and others
>>cannot see why I should share such info with such people.
>>
>SInce it was inaccurate, who cares why you did it?

As you are demonstrating ignorance of basic food technology, who cares
if you understand or not? :-)

If you think that you know more than I do about the subject, then
feel free to mislead others.

Not my problem, really.

Suppose that Glickman, or others, tell you that you are as "full of
**** as the traditional Christmas Goose".

Do you think that we care? Nope. Hardly.

Gunner, or others, can provide the group with useful technical info
and most of us will listen. Political info and we probably won't.

Why do you think that we should listen to you?

....But doesn't really matter, does it?

Personally, I don't give a **** if you do or don't understand the
concept of "freezer burn".

If you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, or learn by
the good old method of "trial and error".

The original idea of "misc.survivalism" is that we tried to learn from
one another.

However, if you think you know better than anyone else, why should I,
or anyone else, possibly try to help you?

Bob Brock
July 18th 03, 06:11 PM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:41:43 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:07 -0400, Bob Brock >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:43:07 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It is possible to disconnect the heater, as the other poster metnioned. And
>>>>then it frosts over, and the food warms up.
>>>>
>>>>Best bet is to put the food in plastic containers (I like the "shoebox" kind
>>>>you get at the discount stores.
>>>
>>>Um, suggest that you all consider what causes what is known as
>>>"freezer burn".
>>>
>>>From a food technology point of view, fairly obvious.
>>>
>>>All plant and animal cells contain water. The slower you freeze any
>>>product, from an animal, vegatable, or fruit source, the larger the
>>>ice crystals grow.
>>>
>>>Eventually they grow large enough to rupture the cell walls, and the
>>>cells dehydrate. Hence, "freezer burn".
>>>
>>>If you want to preserve animal or plant cells by freezing, then have
>>>to rapidly chill down to well below normal freezing temperatures so
>>>that only small crystals form so the cell walls are not broken.
>>
>>http://www.astro.washington.edu/tmurphy/phys110/faqs/AC08.02.html
>>
>>
>>As for freezer burn, this is due to exposure to air. Not only is food
>>dehydrated by cold, dry air, but some oxidation may also occur.
>
>In a quick freeze environment? Know what a quick freeze blast tunnel
>is? How about immersion in liquid nitrogen?
>
>Both technologies at least 35 to 40 years old. :-)
>
>> I
>>don't think biological processes (bacteria) are important in the
>>freezer environment, just the air contact.
>
>Few food products are really "sterile" in a bacteriological sense.
>However, if talking about "spoilage" in this sense are talking about
>gross bacteriological multiplication, and usually pathogens at that.
>
>>Yoy Note that often freezer
>>burn is accompanied by frost buildup--a sure sign that there's been
>>significant exposure to air. To prevent freezer burn, wrap things
>>positively air-tight.
>
>You misunderstand the process. Air exposure doesn't matter.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Basic physics, but with the recent insults from Gunner and others
>>>cannot see why I should share such info with such people.
>>>
>>SInce it was inaccurate, who cares why you did it?
>
>As you are demonstrating ignorance of basic food technology, who cares
>if you understand or not? :-)
>
>If you think that you know more than I do about the subject, then
>feel free to mislead others.
>
>Not my problem, really.
>
>Suppose that Glickman, or others, tell you that you are as "full of
>**** as the traditional Christmas Goose".
>
>Do you think that we care? Nope. Hardly.
>
>Gunner, or others, can provide the group with useful technical info
>and most of us will listen. Political info and we probably won't.
>
>Why do you think that we should listen to you?
>
>...But doesn't really matter, does it?
>
>Personally, I don't give a **** if you do or don't understand the
>concept of "freezer burn".
>
>If you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, or learn by
>the good old method of "trial and error".
>
>The original idea of "misc.survivalism" is that we tried to learn from
>one another.
>
>However, if you think you know better than anyone else, why should I,
>or anyone else, possibly try to help you?
\

Why did you write this to me ernie? You should have sent it to the
washingtion.edu site. The physics department in particular. Show
them how smart you really are ernie and get back to us when they
concede to you superior knowledge.

In the mean time, quit ****in on the floor everywhere. I told them
that we should have gotten a cat.

Bob Brock
July 18th 03, 06:11 PM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:41:43 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:07 -0400, Bob Brock >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:43:07 GMT, erniegalts
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:50:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It is possible to disconnect the heater, as the other poster metnioned. And
>>>>then it frosts over, and the food warms up.
>>>>
>>>>Best bet is to put the food in plastic containers (I like the "shoebox" kind
>>>>you get at the discount stores.
>>>
>>>Um, suggest that you all consider what causes what is known as
>>>"freezer burn".
>>>
>>>From a food technology point of view, fairly obvious.
>>>
>>>All plant and animal cells contain water. The slower you freeze any
>>>product, from an animal, vegatable, or fruit source, the larger the
>>>ice crystals grow.
>>>
>>>Eventually they grow large enough to rupture the cell walls, and the
>>>cells dehydrate. Hence, "freezer burn".
>>>
>>>If you want to preserve animal or plant cells by freezing, then have
>>>to rapidly chill down to well below normal freezing temperatures so
>>>that only small crystals form so the cell walls are not broken.
>>
>>http://www.astro.washington.edu/tmurphy/phys110/faqs/AC08.02.html
>>
>>
>>As for freezer burn, this is due to exposure to air. Not only is food
>>dehydrated by cold, dry air, but some oxidation may also occur.
>
>In a quick freeze environment? Know what a quick freeze blast tunnel
>is? How about immersion in liquid nitrogen?
>
>Both technologies at least 35 to 40 years old. :-)
>
>> I
>>don't think biological processes (bacteria) are important in the
>>freezer environment, just the air contact.
>
>Few food products are really "sterile" in a bacteriological sense.
>However, if talking about "spoilage" in this sense are talking about
>gross bacteriological multiplication, and usually pathogens at that.
>
>>Yoy Note that often freezer
>>burn is accompanied by frost buildup--a sure sign that there's been
>>significant exposure to air. To prevent freezer burn, wrap things
>>positively air-tight.
>
>You misunderstand the process. Air exposure doesn't matter.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Basic physics, but with the recent insults from Gunner and others
>>>cannot see why I should share such info with such people.
>>>
>>SInce it was inaccurate, who cares why you did it?
>
>As you are demonstrating ignorance of basic food technology, who cares
>if you understand or not? :-)
>
>If you think that you know more than I do about the subject, then
>feel free to mislead others.
>
>Not my problem, really.
>
>Suppose that Glickman, or others, tell you that you are as "full of
>**** as the traditional Christmas Goose".
>
>Do you think that we care? Nope. Hardly.
>
>Gunner, or others, can provide the group with useful technical info
>and most of us will listen. Political info and we probably won't.
>
>Why do you think that we should listen to you?
>
>...But doesn't really matter, does it?
>
>Personally, I don't give a **** if you do or don't understand the
>concept of "freezer burn".
>
>If you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, or learn by
>the good old method of "trial and error".
>
>The original idea of "misc.survivalism" is that we tried to learn from
>one another.
>
>However, if you think you know better than anyone else, why should I,
>or anyone else, possibly try to help you?
\

Why did you write this to me ernie? You should have sent it to the
washingtion.edu site. The physics department in particular. Show
them how smart you really are ernie and get back to us when they
concede to you superior knowledge.

In the mean time, quit ****in on the floor everywhere. I told them
that we should have gotten a cat.

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