PDA

View Full Version : Credit Card Advice Needed


nowizard
July 23rd 09, 11:25 PM
I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
trust.

If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling my
card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
charges, is that correct? What's the real situation with this? Some of
these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
any charge backs, also.

The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
and I wonder what risk that is?

Any good advice welcome.

Rod Speed[_1_]
July 23rd 09, 11:58 PM
nowizard wrote:

> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly trust.

> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally
> and practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my
> card or selling my card info to someone who might?

You arent legally exposed at all.

You are only practically exposed in the sense that you do need to tell
the card company about the fraudulent charges to have them reversed.

You can also get one time card numbers which can only be used the once too.

> If they misrepresent the product or falsely advertise
> how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
> back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

That varys with the card company but in a practical sense in the US its pretty easy.

> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized charges, is that correct?

It is in the sense that you arent liable for any more than that,
but in a practicall sense you arent even liable for the first $50
either if you report the fraudulent card use.

> What's the real situation with this?

See above.

> Some of these online companies ask you to sign
> agreements that there cannot be any charge backs, also.

Then dont deal with those companys if you dont like that condition.

> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but
> I have to do banking online and submit my SS number and
> CC number online for that, and I wonder what risk that is?

No risk at all.

> Any good advice welcome.

Gordon
July 24th 09, 12:00 AM
nowizard > wrote in :

> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
> trust.
>
> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
> practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling
> my card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
> falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
> back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

First you have to deal with the company and attempt to return
the merchandise or get a refund. If they refuse, then you can
go to the credit card co and have them do a chargeback.

If they make a fraudulent transaction, you report it to the
Card Co and also inform the CC co that they are no longer
authorized to make charges to your card.

>
> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
> charges, is that correct? What's the real situation with this? Some of
> these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
> any charge backs, also.

You can't sign away your legal rights under the law. Also, it you
report the fraudulent charges, they will be investigated, and you will
typicly not have any liability

>
> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to
> do banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for
> that, and I wonder what risk that is?

Who do you trust more? Your bank or the on line merchant?

>
> Any good advice welcome.
>

BigDog1
July 24th 09, 12:55 AM
On Jul 23, 3:25*pm, nowizard > wrote:
> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
> trust.

First of all, why do you HAVE to do business with an on line company
you don't trust? I this some sort of a unique single purpose product
that they are the sole source of? If not, find another source.

> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
> practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling my
> card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
> falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
> back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

In order to do a charge back on an authorized transaction you need to
follow the steps to return the merchandise spelled out by the seller
and/or any additional steps required by your CC company. Sort those
out before you enter into the transaction. A material
misrepresentation constitutes fraud, and would most likely be handled
by your CC company in the same manner as an unauthorized charge that
might show up on your account. But again, sort that out before you do
this deal. The bottom line is that you have make reasonable efforts
to resolve the issue before you'll get a charge back.

Keep in mind, that even if you jump through all the correct hoops, and
get an authorized transaction charged back, it gets off of your
account, but doesn't eliminate the debt. The seller could still come
after you through a collection agency or civil court for payment, and/
or report it to the credit reporting agencies.

> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
> charges, is that correct? What's the real situation with this? Some of
> these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
> any charge backs, also

Such an agreement would be unenforceable. But even so, why would you
do business with such a company? Don't know about that $50.00 limit.

> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
> banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
> and I wonder what risk that is?

Don't know why the bank needs your SSN - they already have it. Ask
them. Maybe for ID verification when you request the single use
number on line. If so, It will surely be on a secure site (https://).

As to on line banking, there is no risk what-so-ever that I can see.
In fact in most respects I think its more secure. When you've got
checks and paper statements floating around in the mail it's much
easier to intercept them than an on line transaction through a secure
server. I've been using on line banking and bill pay for years with
no trouble at all. All of my personal finances, including investment
and retirement accounts, are handled that way. They're on cruise
control, and I have absolute oversight of them.

> Any good advice welcome.

nowizard
July 24th 09, 01:44 AM
BigDog1 > wrote in
:

<snip>


A simple web search on hacked banks brought this:
http://tinyurl.com/mvddac

Did not see any USA banks in there, but that does not mean they are
above being hacked.


> As to on line banking, there is no risk what-so-ever that I can see.
> In fact in most respects I think its more secure. When you've got
> checks and paper statements floating around in the mail it's much
> easier to intercept them than an on line transaction through a secure
> server. I've been using on line banking and bill pay for years with
> no trouble at all. All of my personal finances, including investment
> and retirement accounts, are handled that way. They're on cruise
> control, and I have absolute oversight of them.
>
>> Any good advice welcome.
>
>

The Real Bev[_7_]
July 24th 09, 02:24 AM
nowizard wrote:

> ...
> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
> banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
> and I wonder what risk that is?

Didn't we just have this conversation?

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== =================
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."

-- B. Ward

Gordon Burditt[_40_]
July 24th 09, 02:27 AM
>I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
>trust.

Why? And how do you know that they won't instead deliver a box of
hand grenades in one shipment, so they explode when you open it,
and a box of hand grenade pins in another shipment?

>If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
>practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling my
>card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
>falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
>back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

Credit card companies are pretty good about removing unauthorized
charges, and charges where the merchandise is not delivered. They
are much less likely to get involved in disputes where the merchandise
is delivered but it is alleged to contain toxic amounts of lead.
And they don't get involved in acts of war.

You can still sue the company if the CC company won't remove the charges.
That's going to be expensive, and possibly not worth the trouble.

>I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
>charges, is that correct?

Yes, but that may not help in disputes over the *quality* of the
merchandise.

>What's the real situation with this? Some of
>these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
>any charge backs, also.

That's a red flag that they intend to cheat you.

>The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
>banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
>and I wonder what risk that is?

I dare you to find any wording in the bank's terms and conditions
that says that temporary credit card numbers can only be used once,
or they can only be used by one merchant, or that they can only be
used for a limited amount that you say and that the bank is responsible
for enforcing that. If you find that, read it carefully. If they try
to charge over the limit, are YOU hit with overlimit fees?

Rod Speed[_1_]
July 24th 09, 03:33 AM
Gordon Burditt wrote:
>> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
>> trust.
>
> Why? And how do you know that they won't instead deliver a box of
> hand grenades in one shipment, so they explode when you open it,
> and a box of hand grenade pins in another shipment?
>
>> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
>> practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling
>> my card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product
>> or falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to
>> charge back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?
>
> Credit card companies are pretty good about removing unauthorized
> charges, and charges where the merchandise is not delivered. They
> are much less likely to get involved in disputes where the merchandise
> is delivered but it is alleged to contain toxic amounts of lead.
> And they don't get involved in acts of war.

> You can still sue the company if the CC company won't remove the
> charges. That's going to be expensive,

Not if you use the small claims system.

> and possibly not worth the trouble.

>> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
>> charges, is that correct?
>
> Yes, but that may not help in disputes over the *quality* of the
> merchandise.
>
>> What's the real situation with this? Some of
>> these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot
>> be any charge backs, also.
>
> That's a red flag that they intend to cheat you.
>
>> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to
>> do banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for
>> that, and I wonder what risk that is?
>
> I dare you to find any wording in the bank's terms and conditions
> that says that temporary credit card numbers can only be used once,
> or they can only be used by one merchant, or that they can only be
> used for a limited amount that you say and that the bank is
> responsible for enforcing that. If you find that, read it carefully.
> If they try to charge over the limit, are YOU hit with overlimit fees?

Rod Speed[_1_]
July 24th 09, 03:37 AM
nowizard wrote:
> BigDog1 > wrote in
> :
>
> <snip>
>
>
> A simple web search on hacked banks brought this:
> http://tinyurl.com/mvddac
>
> Did not see any USA banks in there, but that does not mean they are
> above being hacked.

What matters is that conventional banking is ever easier to 'hack'

>> As to on line banking, there is no risk what-so-ever that I can see.
>> In fact in most respects I think its more secure. When you've got
>> checks and paper statements floating around in the mail it's much
>> easier to intercept them than an on line transaction through a secure
>> server. I've been using on line banking and bill pay for years with
>> no trouble at all. All of my personal finances, including investment
>> and retirement accounts, are handled that way. They're on cruise
>> control, and I have absolute oversight of them.
>>
>>> Any good advice welcome.

Rod Speed[_1_]
July 24th 09, 03:41 AM
JeffS wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> nowizard wrote

>>> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but
>>> I have to do banking online and submit my SS number and
>>> CC number online for that, and I wonder what risk that is?

>> No risk at all.

> No risk eh? What about all the major companies who have had
> their databases compromised and credit card numbers stolen?

Irrelevant if you use a temporary credit card number.

And I was talking about the risk of giving the bank your SS number there anyway.

> What about man-in-the-middle attacks
> on supposedly secure bank web pages.

Trivial to avoid that when getting a temporary credit card number from the bank.

> These are considerable risks when you're giving you social
> numbers and other info used to access bank accounts.

And trivially avoided. If you dont like the risk with a temporary credit card number, you
can always go to the bank in person and get the temporary credit card number that way.

Deadrat
July 24th 09, 04:19 AM
nowizard > wrote in :

> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
> trust.
>
> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
> practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling my
> card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
> falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
> back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?

If you have a legitimate complaint, they won't. Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
> charges, is that correct?

Yep. It's common for credit card companies to waive that.

> What's the real situation with this? Some of
> these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
> any charge backs, also.

Don't do business with them.

> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
> banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
> and I wonder what risk that is?

You have to set up an online login with the credit card company. They
already have all the information about you. The company I use calls these
virtual numbers: they're good for one use and expire the next month. And
the online merchant never knows my "real" credit card number.
>
> Any good advice welcome.

Boy are you in the wrong place!

Shawn Hirn
July 24th 09, 01:57 PM
In article >, nowizard >
wrote:

> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
> trust.
>
> If I give them my credit card, how exposed am I,legally and
> practically,to their making fraudulent charges on my card or selling my
> card info to someone who might? If they misrepresent the product or
> falsely advertise how difficult is it to get the CC company to charge
> back/remove the charges; what can I do if they refuse?
>
> I heard somewhere I am only liable for the first $50 for unauthorized
> charges, is that correct? What's the real situation with this? Some of
> these online companies ask you to sign agreements that there cannot be
> any charge backs, also.
>
> The bank is now offering temporary credit card numbers but I have to do
> banking online and submit my SS number and CC number online for that,
> and I wonder what risk that is?
>
> Any good advice welcome.

Best not to do business with doubious companies, but if you must, then
check your credit card issuer's web site for its policies.

Kalmia
July 25th 09, 01:53 PM
On Jul 23, 9:41*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
you
> can always go to the bank in person and get the temporary credit card number that way.


Do you know if most banks charge you for this service?

Rod Speed[_1_]
July 25th 09, 08:57 PM
Kalmia wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote

>> you can always go to the bank in person and
>> get the temporary credit card number that way.

> Do you know if most banks charge you for this service?

Most dont charge for a temporary credit card number.

Not clear if you are asking whether they charge if you go
into the bank in person to get one or not. I dont know, I never
ever go anywhere near a physical bank, I do everything online
and by phone if that isnt feasible for some reason.

Kalmia
July 25th 09, 09:31 PM
On Jul 25, 2:57*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
> Kalmia wrote
>
> > Rod Speed > wrote
> >> you can always go to the bank in person and
> >> get the temporary credit card number that way.
> > Do you know if most banks charge you for this service?
>
> Most dont charge for a temporary credit card number.
>
> Not clear if you are asking whether they charge if you go
> into the bank in person to get one or not. I dont know, I never
> ever go anywhere near a physical bank, I do everything online
> and by phone if that isnt feasible for some reason.

Nah....I'll be calling my cr. cd. company's 800 number. Sorry I
misled by using that 'bank' word.

Don Klipstein
July 27th 09, 06:00 AM
In article >, nowizard wrote:
>BigDog1 > wrote in
:
>
>> On Jul 23, 3:25*pm, nowizard > wrote:
>>> I have to buy some stuff online from companies that I don't exactly
>>> trust.
>>
>> First of all, why do you HAVE to do business with an on line company
>> you don't trust? I this some sort of a unique single purpose product
>> that they are the sole source of? If not, find another source.
>
>
>In several cases there was only 1-2 companies handling what I wanted to
>order. Plus the fact that the majority of online companies are
>suspicious looking. Anytime you place an order like this it is risky,
>problems with shipping, misrepresentation, etc. Not like going to a
>local store where you can return the next day.

<SNIP from here>

I have had so far a 100% lack of problems with ordering online.

Most of the time, I order from companies that have been in business
since before the Internet and are well known in their industries (such as
Digi-Key and Newark Electronics), major ones that have a long way to fall
if they get a bad reputation (such as Amazon), or ones recommended to me
by people havin satisfactory business dealings - and in ways besides
Internet orders (such as manufacturers I have business dealings with and
who supply products to Internet-sales sources).

So far, I have lost maybe $4-$5 in my entire life buying stuff online
since I first did so about 11 years ago. I lost maybe $4 or $5 or so
downloading a couple songs from buy.com several years ago while using an
even-then-older version of Netscape as my web browser.

- Don Klipstein )

Clincher
July 27th 09, 03:49 PM
>> Don't know why the bank needs your SSN - they already have it. Ask
>> them. Maybe for ID verification when you request the single use
>> number on line. If so, It will surely be on a secure site (https://).
>
> They ask for SS number to start the online banking process for ID
> purposes. SS number can result in identity theft.

Consider this - you need to provide shockingly little info to set up that
online username/pwd.(most of it easily available to thieves.)

So you might be better off setting up that pwd before a thief does.


> Also if you use a public
> computer say at a library, who knows WHAT that computer has on it to
> mine your data.

That's true, don't use a computer that's not under your personal control for
this kind of thing.

Unless you don't own a PC, though, that's not an argument against doing
banking online.




> Not sure I agree with you. Many reports of major companies having their
> CC databases hacked.

That will affect you whether or not you set up online access for yourself.
But with online access, you'll be able to detect fraud much faster than
waiting for that monthly statement.

Once you set up online access, most institutions these days will let you opt
out of receiving paper bills in the mail, which greatly reduces the mail
theft risk.

So it depends on which risk you prefer:

1. Keeping your PC, usernames and pwds secure.
2. Trusting a dinosaur like USPS (which is rapidly going broke and cutting
what little "service" they still do) with the security and timeliness of
your bills and notices.

Personally, I vote for the first.

Google